Daredevil Season 2 Trailer

Well...no surprise here but this DD v Punisher Marvel TV series looks better than DC's marque Batman v Superman feature film. Bad news for DC when Marvel's B squad on television is more hype than their A team in the theater.

In general, I'm not a fan of heroes fighting heroes, but the DD v Punisher conflict made sense. Particularly as Frank wasn't initially setup as a hero in his original appearance.

Punisher isn't a hero is he? I mean, he's a protagonist of a comic book, but that is one dark mof. Daredevil seems to have a lot of this ambiguity--Elektra also comes to mind.

Ray Stevenson will always be the best Punisher....and Pullo.

I do not follow your heroes versus heroes thing, you had mentioned that before that it's like some kind of "gang warfare" or something.

Heroes versus heroes is a longtime staple of comic book stories. Everybody, especially kids, loves it when heroes wind up at loggerheads over something (or are mind controlled, from an alternate universe, are actually Skrulls, etc.). One of the things that made the first Avengers movie so successful is that it had a few hero vs. hero vignettes- classic comic book stuff- before they ever assembled. Iron Man vs. Thor, Hulk vs. Thor...even the non-violent confrontations between Cap and Iron Man are part of all of this.

Even Batman vs. Superman isn't a bad concept and it is in fact a pretty great one that has been mined to great wealth in the comics. One of the classic, if not most significant, comics panels drawn in the 1980s is Batman decking Superman in The Dark Knight Returns. Of course, Zack Snyder has no fucking clue what do with any of that so we have that horrible looking movie on the way.

Looking forward to seeing this, should be good with Punisher and Elektra in the mix.

Best Punisher?

Michael Barnes wrote: I do not follow your heroes versus heroes thing, you had mentioned that before that it's like some kind of "gang warfare" or something.

Heroes versus heroes is a longtime staple of comic book stories. Everybody, especially kids, loves it when heroes wind up at loggerheads over something (or are mind controlled, from an alternate universe, are actually Skrulls, etc.). One of the things that made the first Avengers movie so successful is that it had a few hero vs. hero vignettes- classic comic book stuff- before they ever assembled. Iron Man vs. Thor, Hulk vs. Thor...even the non-violent confrontations between Cap and Iron Man are part of all of this.

Even Batman vs. Superman isn't a bad concept and it is in fact a pretty great one that has been mined to great wealth in the comics. One of the classic, if not most significant, comics panels drawn in the 1980s is Batman decking Superman in The Dark Knight Returns. Of course, Zack Snyder has no fucking clue what do with any of that so we have that horrible looking movie on the way.

Looking forward to seeing this, should be good with Punisher and Elektra in the mix.

Sure, it's a longtime staple, but it's a lazy approach to storytelling, and puts comics wallowing down in the mud with pro-wrestling as alliances flip flop all around. Now, I'm a fan of pro-wrestling, but the wrestlers aren't supposed to be upholding any sort of law or lofty ideals. First, there's the question of what superheroes do as even being legal, but suppose they get a pass as they're 'helping' in one manner or another, does that justify going to blows when they disagree? Do you fist fight your co-workers when you don't get along? Should the police start shooting each other up if they don't agree with the commissioner? So what basically happens is that when heroes in comics get in a tizzy they forgo any sort of order or reasoned discussion and simply rage and battle over whatever argument they're having. Its a disregard for law. And if they're that hot headed should they get these sorts of passes?

"With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" indeed.

When Thor and Iron Man fight do they press charges? Is Iron Man the assualter and Thor the assaultee? Who pays for the damages in cost and lives from these scraps? What necessary action is being shown here that couldn't be done with Iron Man taking down a rampaging Abomination?

Granted some of this may be covered in story lines like Civil War or Confession but by and large these brutes just tear into each other with no consequence. If Batman doesn't agree with Superman's course of action...why not press charges or file a suit? He doesn't have anything that holds water? Then he's just a baby looking for a fight. In the DD v Punisher case it's different. Frank is a criminal killing people. DD is trying to bring him in. The interesting part is Frank's attempt to hold a mirror up to Matt. What's interesting about Batman fighting Superman? Oddly enough the only resolution comes about through their discussion in word balloons...while their drawn trading blows. It's the exchange of ideas from the two differing viewpoints that is compelling and worth exploring. The hitting and kicking tantrum is just there because...we expect it?

It doesn't really matter though...just funny books. I just think it's sort of lame.

My son said it best long ago when he flipped through his first comic at about age 3, and I think I posted it here. "Daddy, what do superheroes do?" "Well, son, they attempt to help people". His response "...but mostly they just hit".

I liked the first season of DD but I didn't love it. It was a little too dark, too serious and I hated Foggy learning about DD's identity so early. It took a lot of the lightness and humour out of the character and I thought that humour really helped to balance the series over all. I also had issues with DD's Dr. buddy and how that character was written.

I didn't hate it either though and as controversial as this may seem I thought it was about equal with the Flash TV series (which at lest feels like it knows it's a silly super hero show, DD feels like it's pretending to be something more). The best is still Agent Carter in my mind.

I'll watch season two though, I just don't have as high a hopes as most people seem to. I'd like to see the Punisher done well since I do have a nostalgic attachment to that character... even though now I don't like him as much and see him as kind of a right wing angry at the poor type character. Politically tied to the Regan era of American society.

I don't mind Heroes fighting Heroes but I generally prefer it to be in a What If comic, which is a series I loved. Outside of that it's hard to pull off well but I have seen it done several times. I think that in principle I'm not against any single plot idea, it's more about how the story pans out. It can be a harder approach to take but it's not bad or good by default, it just requires a certain finesse.

I mentioned Civil War, and that's also the thread I first posted being less than excited about this, but I suppose it's possible the ethics of what superheroes do (and are) will be handled well in that film. Who knows? I was hoping Age of Ultron would have had something to show us about the rise of AI, but ultimately it just boiled down to an unending, mind numbing action sequence of our heroes battling countless cgi robots with the Law of Inverse Ninja multiplying out the back of the cineplex. Marvel let Ex Machina be the better Rise of the Robots film.

So, you can understand that I have little hope for Civil War to be much more than what Marvel has shown for the most part which is nothing to deep, likely just hero battles with no consequences. I admit I could be totally wrong though as supposedly these guys did a good job with Winter Soldier.

I tried to read the Civil War comic but it was spread across so many different titles and so cliche I couldn't get through it. It might have a great ending that makes it all worth while but I just don't care. I am completely uninterested in it as a film property.

In fact even though I like Super Hero films just fine and can almost always sit through them, I am much more interested in Super Hero films that don't come from comics or have a set source material. I would much prefer a writer to work within the film medium and create a super hero specifically for the time and medium they are using. One of the strengths of Agent Carter may have been that we just don't know these characters or this world that well. They were free to write mostly what they wanted without being hamstrung by previous material.

I detest Punisher, but damn can I not wait to see this. Can't help but feel they're lifting a little bit from The Killing Joke with that "You're just one bad day away from becoming me" bit. Say what you will about superheroes just hitting, but I'll be counting the days to see Daredevil kick his ass.

Right wing angry at the poor type? What in the fuck are you talking about?

Hurry up and make the point that he's white and heterosexual and could be construed as old.

God damn sometimes this place bores me to tears.

The most valuable comic in my collection is Amazing Spider-Man #129, featuring the first appearance of the Punisher. Right from the start, Punisher was portrayed as a ruthless vigilante instead of a straight-up hero, and he was fighting Spider-man because he was tricked by the biased reporting of the Daily Bugle and the manipulations of a new villain. In time, Punisher became a bit more appealing, as writers revealed additional details that made him more sympathetic. And yet it wasn't until the late '80s that Punisher became really popular, with two ongoing monthly titles and frequent guest appearances elsewhere. There was definitely a cultural shift during the Reagan administration, and that shift favored the vigilante justice of the Punisher.

During Frank Miller's famous run on Daredevil, the Punisher became a recurring guest star who frequently clashed with DD. This was during the early '80s, a transitional period when the weirdness of the '70s was turning into the preppy and materialistic '80s. The Daredevil tv show is probably going to draw directly upon the Miller run for how to portray the conflict between Daredevil and the Punisher, but it will be interesting to see how the show treats Frank Castle. Will he be a dangerous gun nut or a pragmatic warrior against crime? The original Punisher was a Vietnam vet even before that became a fearsome pop culture stereotype, but now all the real Vietnam vets are old and the stereotype has faded. So this Punisher will probably have a slightly modified origin, either placing him in the context of a less impressive war, or maybe as a former participant in some shadowy CIA ops.

repoman wrote: Right wing angry at the poor type? What in the fuck are you talking about?

Hurry up and make the point that he's white and heterosexual and could be construed as old.

God damn sometimes this place bores me to tears.

I'm not here for your entertainment.

You know you can post what you like without having to drag me into your bullshit problems. He seems like a fascist to me, nothing to do with white whatsoever.

Jesus, it's like you can't have an opinion without someone trying to rain on your parade for no good reason. Don't be such an asshole.

JonJacob wrote: Jesus, it's like you can't have an opinion without someone trying to rain on your parade for no good reason. Don't be such an asshole.

Welcome to the Internet.

JonJacob wrote:

repoman wrote: Right wing angry at the poor type? What in the fuck are you talking about?

Hurry up and make the point that he's white and heterosexual and could be construed as old.

God damn sometimes this place bores me to tears.

I'm not here for your entertainment.

You know you can post what you like without having to drag me into your bullshit problems. He seems like a fascist to me, nothing to do with white whatsoever.

Jesus, it's like you can't have an opinion without someone trying to rain on your parade for no good reason. Don't be such an asshole.

Proving that you know little about what fascism is or was. Punisher is a murderous vigalante who feels himself above the law. So in a sense he is a "superman" though in the Dostoyevsky sense and not the Aryian one. There is little outside of a belief in self reliance that would make him even close to "right wing".

As to "angry at the poor". Wasn't aware that he murdered only the destitute.

See the problem is you casually connect being a murderer, a fascist, unfeeling, and angry at the poor with right wing i.e. being conservative. Which is bull shit.

If growing weary of such conventional wisdom is my problem, so be it.