FFG Asmodee Discussion

Put me down for a Gallic Shrug too. No clue what it is, but it sounds really classy.

Your summary kind of misses the entire point of the conversation here, which is more on the lines of "it's a free country" than "I hate that guy." Frankly I'd like to see the prices of games go down by not being so damn plush, but no one is listening to me.

What I think is the more interesting part of the article that Mr. Ruth linked is the fact that Asmodee isn't merely a big hobby game company, but a subsidiary of a megacorp game company. I was unaware of that if it's true. He calls it the Hasbro of Europe or something like that. If that's the case then we're seeing a huge level of consolidation.

As for that 90% of the market line (in the same article) he coasts by it without providing definition. He could be applying it to hobby games, all games, all toys, or all goods worldwide. It's a datapoint dropped in from the blue, so I didn't give it any credence.

Ken B. wrote: Instead of allowing the market to decide, they're mucking with both supply and demand in an artificial manner.

Where are you getting that from? When copies pile up in stores, B&M or Online, the price is going to come down at the retail level. You can't muck with supply and demand. It is what it is, all you can do is respond to it, and retailers will when they're not moving stock.

Sagrilarus wrote:

Ken B. wrote: Instead of allowing the market to decide, they're mucking with both supply and demand in an artificial manner.

Where are you getting that from? When copies pile up in stores, B&M or Online, the price is going to come down at the retail level. You can't muck with supply and demand. It is what it is, all you can do is respond to it, and retailers will when they're not moving stock.

Restricting who can purchase it and how they can sell it--and despite their assertion to the contrary, they are attempting to establish effective price floors. Again, nothing illegal. But certainly artificial.

Msample wrote: While I can't speak for everyone else, my "position" is more like a Gallic shrug.

Same. I have no traction on the decisions here and no dog in this hunt. I'm an interested bystander, that's all.

So I'm not cheerleading this decision or Christian Petersen. Just pointing out that there might, possibly, be a small benefit in the long term. Might also end up as a colossal cluster fuck. Who knows? There are far bigger things in the world to get exercised about.

(I had no idea that FFG staff were banned from the site. That's so petty as to be hilarious. Wonder if it now applies to the whole of Asmodee? I can just see it written in to the staff contracts )

MattDP wrote: (I had no idea that FFG staff were banned from the site. That's so petty as to be hilarious. Wonder if it now applies to the whole of Asmodee? I can just see it written in to the staff contracts )

Thaadd posted that very thing here for all to read--that she was not allowed to visit the site on company time, nor was anyone else on staff. I always found that so very petty and sad. Not because we were anti-FFG....the comments and forums were rife with people talking about their games and how much they loved them...but because Barnes gave a few less than glowing reviews to a few of their titles. That's fucking crazy, man.

And I'm not nearly as incensed about it as some others are, but the bottom line is that Asmodee wants us to pay more for their games. For the same money, I'll just purchase elsewhere. That's the extent of my "outrage."

Ken B. wrote:
And I'm not nearly as incensed about it as some others are, but the bottom line is that Asmodee wants us to play more for their games. For the same money, I'll just purchase elsewhere. That's the extent of my "outrage."

Which is the appropriate response.

Instead of restricting sales price and mode of sale, they should just have different pricing tiers for the various sellers. Then the sellers can resell as they see fit

Ken B. wrote:

Msample wrote: While I can't speak for everyone else, my "position" is more like a Gallic shrug. It's the reality of the retail business. Sure we'd all like cheaper games, but I also understand the retail realities involved. I am not necessarily taking a side, more like being entertained by all the rhetoric being thrown around on BGG. Those railing against the "greedy" Asmodee are no less greedy in their holy jihad to pay rock bottom prices .

Well, I'm not on a Jihad, either. I'll gladly pay what games are worth. I paid $160 for Cthulhu Wars and am out $230 on Onslaught Two.

But they're smoking weed if they think that the exact same contents for Fury of Dracula, for example, now cost $20 more in MSRP than they used to, despite them realizing a much better economy of scale than they did in 2006. I'd always just let them off the hook for that, thinking they were raising the "MSRP" so that it would take into account actual discount prices. But no, they soon expect you to pay that inflated price as well.

Fact is, for economies of scale, somehow you're getting more content for your money from upstarts like CMON and others.

Instead of allowing the market to decide, they're mucking with both supply and demand in an artificial manner. Again, totally legal. And again, I'm free to shop somewhere else. I have the feeling they've taken into account lost sales from gamers like me, and hell, they'll probably be fine. But I'll not speak of their company (or any of the companies that now comprise the multinational conglomerate) in any sort of glowing light, nor recommend them to anyone either.

I don't review or discuss games like I used to, so again, this will have very little impact.

Just had a vision of you, Ken, holding up a crysknife and yelling, "LONG LIVE THE GAMERS!"

You may now return to the discussion at hand.

Ken B. wrote: And I'm not nearly as incensed about it as some others are, but the bottom line is that Asmodee wants us to pay more for their games. For the same money, I'll just purchase elsewhere. That's the extent of my "outrage."

Yes... thank you. I get that it's good for them and for FLGS and its environment. But forgive me if I'm not wearing a party hat, sitting bare-assed naked in front of my computer celebrating a decision that increased prices for games and gives me no other benefit at all.

Gary Sax wrote: But forgive me if I'm not wearing a party hat, sitting bare-assed naked in front of my computer

I'm sorry to inform you, but that's exactly the dress code we expect here at the Fortress.

FFG hasn't produced anything I've really wanted in a while now. I seriously don't give a shit about Star Wars games. Collectible phased-release Star Wars games? I'd rather burn a pile of money on the sidewalk, because at least I wouldn't have to store that crap later.

What I want out of games has been growing steadily away from what they produce for a long time. DoW and Asmodee itself barely rate in my interest level.

So ANA can charge whatever they want for their games, I wasn't buying them at yesterday's pricing. I have a stack of older FFG games I like, and any new ones that look good are going to have to pass the value sniff test, just like everyone else. If ANA feels they can charge a $20 premium over everyone else, then we'll just see how that works out.

I know a lot of gamers are wailing because now they just have to pay this much more money. They don't have to, but they will. Because new games, man.

Like most of the esteemed people here are saying "supply, demand, value". Make some good choices. I know I have enough games socked away that I don't honestly ever need a new one, they're just luxuries.

And much like Sax, if I have to drive to a game store, pry the employee away from their game just to ring me up, and pay MSRP at the end, it's not going to happen.

aside:
FFG certainly had some of their employees carefully monitoring this board for quite a while, I remember getting an email when I was still in the good graces of the Wiz-War beta program about something I'd said deep in an article comment possibly being on the wrong side of the NDA.

So their game-loving staff may be prohibited, but I assume their compliance people get to sift every nugget of this bullshit daily. Hi folks!

Not Sure wrote: And much like Sax, if I have to drive to a game store, pry the employee away from their game just to ring me up, and pay MSRP at the end, it's not going to happen.

The only one that stings is Star Wars: Rebellion. I've been waiting for a game like this for quite some time. I don't think it's any small coincidence that it will likely be their first major release *AFTER* all their new bullshit policies go into effect.

Not Sure wrote: FFG hasn't produced anything I've really wanted in a while now. I seriously don't give a shit about Star Wars games. Collectible phased-release Star Wars games? I'd rather burn a pile of money on the sidewalk, because at least I wouldn't have to store that crap later.

What I want out of games has been growing steadily away from what they produce for a long time. DoW and Asmodee itself barely rate in my interest level.

So ANA can charge whatever they want for their games, I wasn't buying them at yesterday's pricing. I have a stack of older FFG games I like, and any new ones that look good are going to have to pass the value sniff test, just like everyone else. If ANA feels they can charge a $20 premium over everyone else, then we'll just see how that works out.

I know a lot of gamers are wailing because now they just have to pay this much more money. They don't have to, but they will. Because new games, man.

Like most of the esteemed people here are saying "supply, demand, value". Make some good choices. I know I have enough games socked away that I don't honestly ever need a new one, they're just luxuries.

And much like Sax, if I have to drive to a game store, pry the employee away from their game just to ring me up, and pay MSRP at the end, it's not going to happen.

aside:
FFG certainly had some of their employees carefully monitoring this board for quite a while, I remember getting an email when I was still in the good graces of the Wiz-War beta program about something I'd said deep in an article comment possibly being on the wrong side of the NDA.

So their game-loving staff may be prohibited, but I assume their compliance people get to sift every nugget of this bullshit daily. Hi folks!

I am speechless, because you said everything that I have been thinking about this deal.

I think that they are grossly misunderstanding the market, myself. I get the business reasons they're doing it for, but someone up the food chain believes that their products command a premium price (Kickstarter is the culprit here, I'd be hard-pressed not to believe) but the market has shown that conclusion is wrong.

Nobody bought Armada, hardly, because it's very expensive. The market has spoken. When it was discounted, it flew off the shelves, sort of. This tells me that the real market value of the product is 40% off of MSRP, meaning MSRP is set too high.

Changing the sales channel's parameters isn't going to magically help them make more money because 30% more of 0 is still 0.

Space Ghost wrote:

Msample wrote: Here's one out of many BGGtard quotes that illustrates both their ignorance as well as their petulance:

"MSRP in modern America is your getting ripped off. The Internet has changed MSRP in just about EVERY industry. Assmodee trying to go back in time wont work. I will pay MSRP for some Christmas gifts tomorrow because I slacked off and waited to the last minute. Any company that demands I pay MSRP or even manipulates the MSRP will not have my support."

This really just pisses me off. This sense of entitlement. I hope that Asmodee just says "Fuck you, don't play our games". I hope this is a big move into Walmart and Target.

I estimate the fraction of pouting nerds who will ACTUALLY not just carry on buying the same shit as before and filling their "collections" just like before, including Asmodees stuff just like before at 90%

Yeah, and if your anticipated price is too far off of the market value a gray market forms. Truth be told you can try to set the value on something all you want, but the value is what it is in spite of your efforts.

I don't buy any FFG series games. So this isn't all that painful for me because I'll likely be able to pick up a Fury of Dracula 3 used in about six months. With onesies this really doesn't matter very much.