Trashdome - Twilight Imperium 3 vs Nexus Ops

Southernman wrote:

C'mon - no fair match-up ...... TI3 after a 1st round (3 second) KO !

Nexus Ops is a great little game, but no where in the same league for comparison. It should have been up against one of the later Risk or A:A variants.
Starcraft would have been a better match for a good scrap in the Dome.

TI3

Agree that comparing these two games is unfair. So...

TI3

For me, Nexus Ops just lacked soul. It was dry. There was no character. There was nothing that drew me in. Nexus just seemed like a game that was one of your buddy's prototypes which is at the point where the basic game is starting to take form and is sound, but still needs some work actually giving it life. Nexus was just a cold, dead, unfeeling game to me.

LvT

EDIT: Vote - TI3

the*mad*gamer wrote:

Nexus Ops is a brilliant game because of the mission cards. These cards enable the game to be completed in a reasonable time and spares you the agony of marathon play so common with Twilight Imperium and Risk.

Well, knock me over with a feather! A comment from Steve which not only makes perfect sense but is actually very insightful too! You're right - the mission cards make this game. Without them it'd just be another Risk clone and not a very good one at that. I recall one particularly good session of NO where the player in last position put down a whole bunch of white mission cards all in the same turn and came from nowhere to take the win. All nicely planned and set up, and a cracking conclusion to the game.

But as clever as the design is, working off those cards, there's no getting away from the fact that the game lacks variety and replay value and - dare I say it - narrative. TI3 has all of those in bucketloads.

That said, the match up really isn't fair. Nexus Ops remains one of a relatively small number of games that allow you to get a proper Ameritrash hit in a small play time. It's for those moments when you've only got 60 minutes to play a game but want some brutal fungoid-on-fungoid action instead of a game about artichoke farming or something. The two are different animals living in different ecological niches - and there ought to be a place for both in the home of any discerning AT fan.

Nexus Ops glows under blacklight.

Winner: Nexus Ops.

Wait ! .... Nexus Ops has got up on a eight and a half count and is (very groggily) swinging feather punches - It's not quite over yet !!

Warsuns. Sabotage runs. Take that card play!. Unconventional warfare.

TI3 !

overkill!

At first, I think "TI3, no contest". But then I think about it a little...TI3 is like "OK Computer" NEXUS OPS is like "Rocket to Russia".

I love TI3. I love that it's huge, epic, sweeping, and has a real sense of scope and depth that is very, very rare not only games today but also in the games of the past. It is _the_ 4X space game, a timeless classic that deserves every single accolade we've ever heaped on it. It deserves fans like Will Kenyon, who has probably played the game- no exaggeration- 200 times or more. It's truly one of the great AT games and 20 years from now people will still be playing it.

However, I'm giving my vote to NEXUS OPS. Yeah.

NEXUS OPS, in a lot of ways, does at least 75% of what TI3 does but with 75% less overhead. No, it's not as rich or detailed. No, there's no politics phase or role selection. But some of the elemental components of the gameplay are still there, and in a much more accessible- and dare I say, fun- way.

I like playing NEXUS OPS more than I like playing TI3. I like that it's stripped down yet still has flavor and theme. I like that it has a goofy, unique character thanks to those neon pieces. I like that it distills pretty much everything AXIS AND ALLIES did into a variable, compact package. I think it's a brilliant, brilliant design that completely changed the way I look at the light multiplayer wargame.

It could have really thrived with an expansion or two...or it could be perfect the way it is. Either way, it's definitely a favorite- along with TI3. But "two games enter, one game leaves" is the way it goes...

I played TI3 a couple weeks ago with 5 other friends. We were about 6 hours in when friend #1 does a transfer action in a system adjacent to one controlled by friend #2 and proceeds to build. #2 declares his intention to use PDS fire from his planets using Deep Space Laser. #1 argues that PDS fire occurs after movement, and he skipped it. We tell him that skipping movement doesn't eliminate the opportunity for PDS fire. He gives #2 the rule book and tells him to look it up, while proceeding to build his units. #2 finds the rule, reads it, and then restates his intention to fire upon the activated system. #1 says, "Well, it is a bit late for that now. I've already built my stuff there and we are past that step. You can't just go back 5 minutes after the fact." A huge fight ensued, and I'm surprised that no one threw over the table. Both players declared the game over, and player #1 proceeded to pack up his game.

Nexus Ops has never been ruined for me by the immaturity shown by friend #1. (Friend #2 was not gracious in his rules-lawyership victory, but he was correct about the rules.)

There is a reason that I own Nexus Ops, and not Twilight Imperium 3.

Winner: Nexus Ops

Beisaic wrote:

I played TI3 a couple weeks ago with 5 other friends. We were about 6 hours in when friend #1 does a transfer action in a system adjacent to one controlled by friend #2 and proceeds to build. #2 declares his intention to use PDS fire from his planets using Deep Space Laser. #1 argues that PDS fire occurs after movement, and he skipped it. We tell him that skipping movement doesn't eliminate the opportunity for PDS fire. He gives #2 the rule book and tells him to look it up, while proceeding to build his units. #2 finds the rule, reads it, and then restates his intention to fire upon the activated system. #1 says, "Well, it is a bit late for that now. I've already built my stuff there and we are past that step. You can't just go back 5 minutes after the fact." A huge fight ensued, and I'm surprised that no one threw over the table. Both players declared the game over, and player #1 proceeded to pack up his game.

Nexus Ops has never been ruined for me by the immaturity shown by friend #1. (Friend #2 was not gracious in his rules-lawyership victory, but he was correct about the rules.)

There is a reason that I own Nexus Ops, and not Twilight Imperium 3.

Winner: Nexus Ops

Your friend's a dick - leave TI3 out of it.

This is like 1-2-3 Kid versus Yokozuna. 1-2-3 Kid is exciting with his martial arts-based offense and lightning feet, but then Yokozuna gives him the Bonzai Drop and kills him. Dead. Then 1-2-3 Kid wanders off to have sex with Chyna.

More like King Kong Bundy vs. SD Jones.

TI3! (and it wants a five count from the ref)

My vote is for Nexus Ops. It is nice that it gets to the table more and can be played in 60 minutes.

TI3 has it on pure power, but Nexus stays in shape by getting played more and is able to duck and dodge -- getting in jabs here and there.



As an aside, question about Trashdome. Will it eventually boil down to only one game standing (so all the winners will eventually face off)? That would be awesome.

I'll give my vote to Nexus Ops because I've never played TI3. But for as short as the playtime is for Nexus Ops, I've never played a complete game.

I am genuinely surprised though at how many people have commented in these Trashdome threads supporting games with shorter play times, smaller overhead and less set up time. You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of Eurogamers (no suprise in Michael "I got Reef Encounter in a math trade" Barnes' case).

Ska_baron wrote:

Beisaic wrote:

I played TI3 a couple weeks ago with 5 other friends. We were about 6 hours in when friend #1 does a transfer action in a system adjacent to one controlled by friend #2 and proceeds to build. #2 declares his intention to use PDS fire from his planets using Deep Space Laser. #1 argues that PDS fire occurs after movement, and he skipped it. We tell him that skipping movement doesn't eliminate the opportunity for PDS fire. He gives #2 the rule book and tells him to look it up, while proceeding to build his units. #2 finds the rule, reads it, and then restates his intention to fire upon the activated system. #1 says, "Well, it is a bit late for that now. I've already built my stuff there and we are past that step. You can't just go back 5 minutes after the fact." A huge fight ensued, and I'm surprised that no one threw over the table. Both players declared the game over, and player #1 proceeded to pack up his game.

Nexus Ops has never been ruined for me by the immaturity shown by friend #1. (Friend #2 was not gracious in his rules-lawyership victory, but he was correct about the rules.)

There is a reason that I own Nexus Ops, and not Twilight Imperium 3.

Winner: Nexus Ops

Your friend's a dick - leave TI3 out of it.

Bah, Ameritrash is as much about the experience as the game itself. My experience was bad, thus the game is bad.

Besides, it is possible to win TI:3 without ever getting into a single space battle. Let that sink in. A conflict-less victory. So much of the game seems to be this passive-aggressive "I'll just play my action cards to run out everyone's strategy pool until the last possible moment, and then I'll take my strategic action and only *I* can benefit from it! Mwahahahaha!" For all its plastic and chrome, the thing plays like a stinkin' ten pound Euro.

In Nexus Ops, there are only a couple secret missions which don't require actually KILLING something to accomplish it (cards like "Dominate the Spires" are the exceptions.) This is a game about BLOWING STUFF UP!

(Disclaimer: I really do like TI:3. I think a need a new group to play it, though.)

Space Ghost wrote:

As an aside, question about Trashdome. Will it eventually boil down to only one game standing (so all the winners will eventually face off)? That would be awesome.

I haven't decided yet, but its definitely a possibility.

Metalface, I don't know how you managed to frame me by fixing the Arms Trade to get me to take your REEF ENCOUNTER...I feel like I've been taken advantage of and I'm too dumb to understand the algorithms or whatever that make that even possible.

Long games are fine, and I'd still rather play one great 4-5-6 hour game than 4-5-6 other games in one night. But that's not always possible, and not everybody that I game with feels like that. Accessibility is important, and more than that _playability_ is critical to wheter a game deserves to win Trashdome or not. NEXUS OPS is extremely playable. TI3 is not, at least not for your first five or six games of it and even then it it requires an awful lot of overhead and administration to run well.

It's funny, TI3 is the kind of game that people get REALLY invested in like the above anecdote attests...part of it is the time commitment, I think.

I think the next wave of AT designs is going to be more like BSG (less overhead/admin, no more than 3 hours playtime, minimal rules:gameplay ratio) and less like TI3, which is kind of the opposite of all that. Call it the Euro influence if you want, but I think it's just smarter, better edited design.