Lost Treasures of the Eurogames Reclamation Project

veemonroe wrote: For adults, Coloretto seems to do the same thing as Zooloretto, but faster and in a smaller box.

Coloretto is the better game hands down for two prime reasons -- it's tighter and faster, and it rewards good play. Zooloretto suffers from a hard points ceiling that makes every game close, regardless of how well you play. Feels stupid to me. Coloretto focuses on the deal, dozens of them per game, each lasting five seconds. You present them through card play instead of speech, but the effect is the same. If you capitalize on your opportunities Coloretto gives you the opportunity to really win the stunning victory you deserve.

Zooloretto does benefit from cute animals and little pieces of wood that don't look at all like trucks.

S.

Except Zooloretto has a theme setting and is a lot of fun...

When turning the trucks back in we slide them with force into the pile of animal chits, just imagining these reckless big game hunters slamming into herds on the savanna. That end game of 15 chits we have stacked up and when there's no more animals in the fields, you gotta 'shake the tree'.

scissors wrote: The more items that have been added to this list, my own recommendations incl., to me suggests ERP is only skin deep: are many othese title really treasures? Zooloretto. Yeah, we play it with my son but that its that great? it's ok. We like it etc. but Must Have doesn't come to mind.

The big gems are stuff like Ra, El Grande, WALLENSTEIN, E&T, Samurai (apparently), Big City (Thanks, Valley Games!), Amun Re, Fire & Axe the first edition EVO and smaller stuff like Hart an der Grenze. Those should be in print. And why the f*** are most Knizia's unavailable? The good doctor must have made some bad business decisions or there is a conspiracy.

There is no need, for the most part, for an ERP. To dig up mediocre or bottom tier euros?

Course, if the alternative is playing dinky Marvel Dice...

Has anybody mentioned Pillars of the Earth? (ducks)

When I first started posting asking about games that I may have missed it was because I noticed a trend where games that were so commonplace on store shelves that I took them for granted started to disappear. Over the past decade or so games have exploded and the market was flooded with titles. But it wasn't until common titles started to disappear that it clicked that publishers of games have bloated catalogs and that it wouldn't make financial sense to keep all of them in print. And to steal a word used in a lot of BGG Auctions, The Culling had begun.

We all know what the Great (big "G") games are from the past ten years, but there are a lot of great (little "g") games that aren't going to survive The Cull. Those are the games that I started to ask about since I have two game shops in my area that tended to lag behind as far as turning over inventory. So yes, there are a lot of mediocre and low-tier euros that are about to fade or already faded, but there are also a lot of little "g" great games that won't make the cut because they don't have the classic status or managed to stay in the forefront of people's minds like the big "G" Great games have.

So I wouldn't call it shallow or scraping the barrel so to speak. And for the most part I'd agree with you and say the majority aren't "Must have" titles, but to be honest, for me the little "g" great games are what get played. The big "G" Great games usually require more investment to learn and become proficient which right now I don't have that luxury with my group.

Right now, my ERP is only a handful of titles. I already owned La Citta, Mississippi Queen with Black Rose and Big City. I've managed to trade for Around the World in 80 Days and Pony Express. And I've bought Manhattan and Ave Caesar (to think I almost bought that for Barnes instead of myself!). None of these are big "G" Great, but all are little "g" great and I'm stoked to have them because I know they'll all get playtime.

And I really like the spirit of the ERP, looking back. Now we have the luxury of time to assess the games. There isn't the glitz and glamor of something being "new". And there is a bit of a Treasure Hunt aspect looking for those diamonds in the rough that may have been overlooked, or forgotten. Right now I feel a bit like Indiana Jones!

So, is it needed? No. There are plenty of new titles that fit the style of game that I like.

Is it fun? Absolutely. It's gotten us, in a forum, on a website with a boardgame focus, talking about boardgames.

VT pretty much has the spirit of the ERP completely explained right there.

When was the last time we REALLY talked about games like this? This kind of discovery-sharing, instead of "we played TI3/Arkham Horror/BSG/whatever" or "there's a new game, blah blah blah".

For me, this whole thing with going back to the 90s or even just to games I missed four or five years ago has been way the hell more exciting than keeping up with the slew of new Kickstarters and endless expansions. I won't name the F:ATtie or the game, but after one of many reviews I've done that have gnerated absolutely zero discussion or interest in the subject, he emailed me and said something to the effect of "review some old Euros, who gives a fuck about <<new game title>>!" It's disheartening to put a lot into a review and you kind of realize that nobody really gives a shit about the game you're covering.

But the ERP...I'm excited. I'm excited that other folks are saying "I'mma go back and check out Rattus" or whatever. I'm excited that some people are irritated by it, that some folks are saying that I've "hit rock bottom" with this. I love that the AT dogmatists are furrowing their eyebrows at it. It's shaking things up around here, and it really is refocusing the conversation back to GAMES. Not the pros and cons of Kickstarter, the politics of expansions, miniatures painting, or whatever else. But the GAMES.

These are games that many of us have played and can actually discuss. A lot of them are inexpensive and easy to get. Some are stupidly overpriced, but are still on some folks' shelves. We have a couple of years of perspective on the newer ones and a couple of decades on the older ones to go back and really look into them outside of the new game hype. And you know what, it's not "scraping the barrel" or "hitting rock bottom" to go back and say "hey, you know what? I missed that game when it was out and I'd like to catch up to it now."

And NOW is the right time.There has never been a better time to see what you've missed or to go back and re-evaluate games you haven't played in 10, 15, 20 years.

The irony is that a lot of this is EXACTLY the same thing as what was going on during the AT revolution.

This idea that all of the Great games that are worth holding on to are still around and the chaff has been separated just isn't true. Because a good game is a good game, doesn't matter if it has a 6.XX rating at BGG, is out of print, and there's not any discussion about it after 2010.

Witness that Knizia Hobbit game. In 2010, when it came out, I wasn't interested because my attention was elsewhere. In 2014, the game is all but forgotten. I got a copy for nine bucks. I played it last night and loved it- simple, experimental and fun. I'm glad I didn't miss out altogether on it. No, it's not T&E or Ra. But it is a game that I can stand to keep around because it's one of those "pull an play" games that requires no WORK to play.

To be quite honest, I haven't actually enjoyed the hobby this much in a couple of years. My regular games gang is digging it too, they're more enthusiatic about playing this stuff than the endless slog of review copies I tend to drag out before them.

Jeff White wrote: Except Zooloretto has a theme setting . . .

I believe that's supposed to be irrelevant in eurogames, yes?

I just find the gameplay in Zooloretto to be pretty doggone thin. You fill your board. It does have cuddly animals and popcorn stands though. Goes for about $50 retail?

Coloretto plays more like a true card game with the associated buzz from that part of the gaming world. I could finish every game night with a quick round of Coloretto and look forward to it each time.

S.

Michael Barnes wrote: For me, this whole thing with going back to the 90s or even just to games I missed four or five years ago has been way the hell more exciting than keeping up with the slew of new Kickstarters and endless expansions. I won't name the F:ATtie or the game, but after one of many reviews I've done that have gnerated absolutely zero discussion or interest in the subject, he emailed me and said something to the effect of "review some old Euros, who gives a fuck about <<new game title>>!" It's disheartening to put a lot into a review and you kind of realize that nobody really gives a shit about the game you're covering.

You're not completely giving up reviewing new games in the short term are you? Was looking forward to your thoughts on Galaxy Defenders and Heroes of Normandie.

Not at all. Thunder Alley review is going up in a little while, I'm on the list for several Z-Man titles and IDW's big stuff coming up. I'm going to ask for Impulse. I was supposed to get a Galaxy Defenders but it never showed up. Heroes of Normandie is sort of beyond the review timeframe, I think. But I am going to be even MORE selective moving forward, I'm not wasting my time on marginal stuff unless I'm seeing something that I think is really interesting or is coming in under the radar. There is so much JUNK coming out now, not only can I not keep up with it I also don't WANT to keep up with it.

Michael Barnes wrote: I'm working up a trade that would include 80 Days, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Africa, and California. Boosh. ERP makin' it REAL yall.

This pan out?

Sagrilarus wrote:

Jeff White wrote: Except Zooloretto has a theme setting . . .

I believe that's supposed to be irrelevant in eurogames, yes?

I just find the gameplay in Zooloretto to be pretty doggone thin. You fill your board. It does have cuddly animals and popcorn stands though. Goes for about $50 retail?

Coloretto plays more like a true card game with the associated buzz from that part of the gaming world. I could finish every game night with a quick round of Coloretto and look forward to it each time.

S.

Irrelevant in eurogames? I dunno. All these types of games (TtR, Zooloretto, Love Letter, Detroit Cleveland Grand Prix) I only play with the family. None of them, nor I, care what should or shouldn't be relevant by online hobbyist, we're just having a good time. I guess our mindset is more fun, than anything. After all, we have two winners when we play Zooloretto: a winner with the best zoo (determined from regular scoring) and a winner who has the best 'petting zoo' (determined by the player with the most babies). My kids love to try and win the latter, they mainly play to collect the mature males and females. It's a great time with the family and not once have I _ever_ thought, "hmmm...this is all irrelevant. This isn't what I want in my euros."

Oh, and I scored it for $11 at Target on clearance. Bought three and gave the other two away as gifts.

Michael Barnes wrote: There is so much JUNK coming out now, not only can I not keep up with it I also don't WANT to keep up with it.

The one thing I think we can all come to an agreement on is that Kickstarter has fractured the gaming conversation. It used to be half a dozen titles a year generated 50% of the debate.

S.

Still waiting on that trade, VT...guy has not responded. I sent a "gentle reminder" today along with offering to pay a shipping difference, hopefully he'll just accept the damn thing. There is no game I want to play more right now than Journey to the Center of the Earth. It sounds awesome. If it doesn't work I've got a source for a $15 copy.

Yeah, it is funny how it used to be that there would be just those half dozen games that EVERYBODY was talking about...remember Agricola? Even if you didn't like the damn thing, you were talking about it. Dominion too. Now, everybody is off in their segregated camps worried about when their next backer update is going to be, if the stretch goals are going to be met, etcetera. I have seriously considered completely banning Kickstarter games from review, but I wouldn't want to miss the very small number of really good games that come from that cesspool like Star Realms.

I was looking over at BGG and noticed that Shadows Over Brimstone, I totally forgot about that one. God, I can not imagine caring LESS about something in my life than that game and others like it. $1.3 million Kickstater, 10 people "pledging" up to $800 to get the mine cart level and have their name in a story. Fuck this shit, there has never been anything worse to happen to hobby gaming in its entire history. But people don't care, there's hot games coming out and they'll keep supping at the cock of mediocrity just to get something new and potentially exclusive.

Michael Barnes wrote: I have seriously considered completely banning Kickstarter games from review, but I wouldn't want to miss the very small number of really good games that come from that cesspool like Star Realms.

You realize Thunder Alley was a kickstarter game as well (it didn't fund)? Picking that as GOTY might give you an aneurism as your brain grapples with this conundrum.

I've never said that there aren't any good games coming from Kickstarter. I've played a couple of really good ones. But I've also not played hundreds of others.

Kickstarter is a self-fulfilling marketing scheme - Limited product, Firm "must order by" date with a marketing budget that grows as the project grows. Yes, we all know this. Great, good and bad things have come out of KS. Great, good and bad things have come out of traditional publishing houses.

Let's not pollute this feel-good thread celebrating the past with KS rants though!

I'll turn this back to the ERP...

I've always had the euros that I've wanted to keep (and most are Knizia, by a long shot), but I've always considered getting Domaine. However, I feel it may be just too cutthroat for the family.

Anyway, back in the 90's we were all in on GW games, a few rpgs, and a lot of Silent Death. There were two big euros that we played a lot, but at the time were oblivious to them being 'euros'. They were Settlers of Catan (mine) and Detroit Cleveland Grand Prix (my roommate's).

I still have that copy of Settlers...all banged to hell.

A few months ago we started taking the kids to the local stock car track because I've been able to get free tickets from one of the sponsors. We have a great time. It all reminded me of Detroit Cleveland Grand Prix and how it may be a good one to get for the family. This is also when talks of the ERP and Thunder Alley started happening.

I checked ebay, bought a copy, and it is indeed a hit. I love this game, why did I take so long to revisit it? Oh, and it cost $20 shipped new in shrink.

Thanks ERP!