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TOPIC: Hearthstone Players!

Hearthstone Players! 18 Sep 2017 08:59 #254400

SebastianBludd wrote:
My other two choices were Flametongue Totem and Kalimos. Kalimos seemed way too slow (and no synergy, to boot), and I wasn't willing to bet on a future board state where I'd be able to use the totem to make one or two value trades to swing the board. I figured that I'd have a chance to use Avalanche to take out a totem or two since Shaman is always pulling totem/Flametongue shenanigans around Turns 3-5.

Yep, Absolutely the right choice there.

SebastianBludd wrote:
That really slowed me down and after the second time Sherazin died I probably should have slowed down and played a tempo Auctioneer instead of rushing to resurrect Sherazin again, depleting my hand.

I wondered about that. I only played Sherazin for a bit, so I don't really have a good grasp on the strategy, but I did focus on removing him a couple times, not because he was a huge threat, but because I know the focus of the deck is to keep returning the 5/3 to the board and that means that the player will often spend a fair amount of time figuring out how to do that, even if the plays involved may not be optimal. I think most of the plays you made were perfectly fine and if I wasn't also involved in/able to play the long game, you probably would have worn me down. But, as you say, you were also dumping your hand to make it work, which has been my concern with Rogue since the game started: Combo means card disadvantage, since you're often using twice the resources to get similar effects and have no sure draw ability other than the very expensive Sprint. Rogue seems designed to not be capable of the long game, other than Mill, in the same way that Priest can't do aggro. Also, Evolve is kind of the counter to Sherazin, since I can engage in the same behavior (performing wonky trades but then healing/improving my damage minions that made those trades by evolving them.)

SebastianBludd wrote:
That Devolve was a backbreaker for me, and when I played my second Hallucinate to get Thing from Below, my other choices were Snowfury Giant (really?) and Lotus Agents.

See? Overload just sucks.
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Hearthstone Players! 18 Sep 2017 12:05 #254418

Quest Hunter.... is bad. So bad in Standard. I am trying, but damn it is so hard. It's close. I need one more recovery--I might move it to Wild and try Reno. The gist is that you use Elemental synergies and Fire Flies to power the deck (and set the Quest off), but once you actually get the Quest, you get... a cheap 8/8 and the ability to play more 1-drops. It's like, what was all that for? Isn't playing The Lich King turn 8 better than playing this Quest in general? Hunter's Quest has an existential crisis.

I used Pirate Warrior to get to the Rank 15 plateau, and now I bounce against it as my ELO plummets until I am in the bottom of the barrel, and I run to 14.2 and then bounce back. I could ust use Pirate Warrior or a decent Priest deck to advance, but the meta seems so stale, it's like no one is even trying anything new at this tier.

Jade Druid
Token Druid
Evolve Shaman (Jade)
Pirate Warrior
Asmodai Hunter
Big Priest

That's a solid 70 to 75% of the decks, if not 90%+ once your ELO is decent. Six decks. You got nine heros, and hundreds of cards, and you see the same five heros and same four themes again and again and again.

I am playing:
Quest Hunter
Deathrattle Priest (Quest and not)
Tempo Mage (ApxVoid)
Maly Rogue

Every game for me is just kill the weenies against Warrior, Hunter, Token Druids, and save the AoE clears for the Jades, and lose to Big Priests.

Paladins exist, right? I haven't seen one in some time, probably because that is an expensive deck to build optimally (Finja, Burnbristle, Tarim at Legendary, along with Warleaders, Megasaurs, Vilefin at Epic). Warlocks are utterly absent--I don't think there's a decent deck there in Standard. Rogue is the same as it ever was--Tempo'ing ahead. They are probably the weakest to Silence effects (things like Gadgetzan, Sherazin, and Van Cleef get bad in a Silence heavy environment) and they are suffering as a result. Same goes for Mage--Secrets and Tempo builds just hope to get you around 15 with shitty effects and then burn your face off. Quest is a solitaire affair--usually coming down to how many extra Ice Blocks they draw.
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Hearthstone Players! 18 Sep 2017 15:35 #254429

I ran my Warlock up to 14 in standard and just got frustrated (this is a Kazakus/Bloodreaver deck -- uses DOOM, just so I can)....moved over to Wild with Warlock.

Haven't played wild in a bit, so started out at Rank 25. I built up a Giant deck that basically used my Standard framework and made it to Rank 15 (I was using singletons because I wanted to see if Frost Giant would work -- he fucking sucks), where I got trapped in the Warlock hell of Hunter, Rogue, and Paladin. So, I retooled my giant deck and now am at Rank 10 and bouncing between 10 and 9.

But, the decks are basically the same:

Druid -- Jade or Token
Rogue - Mill
Paladin -- either Murloc or Buff
Warrior - Pirate
Priest - Big or Death Rattle (Variations on the same, but deathrattle is much easier for me to beat)
Hunter -- standard hunter shit
Warlock - Reno Warlock

I seem to easily beat Druid, Hunter, Warlock, and Shaman. I have a hell of a time with Paladin and Warrior. Priest seems to be 50-50 as does whatever weird version of Mage shows up
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Hearthstone Players! 19 Sep 2017 12:28 #254478

Cashed in 400 dust (Warleader) to get over the hump for Shadowreaper Anduin. It's worth it--he takes any Priest deck to the next level. The Battlecry (Destroy all minions with 5 or more Attack) is just amazing. I felt totally comfortable dueling with a Jade Druid, knowing I was going to demolish his board at will in the late game. I didn't need it in this game, Ysera was kind to me; but it was such a relief to have it there. I'll get another Warleader if I need it--I keep getting Classic packs from Brawls, Quests, so it'll turn up someday. Not like I am maximizing its utility.

I had to make a Defile too, to get through The Lich King. I just have paladin left, having scored Warrior, Mage, Warlock, and Hunter wins yesterday. Both Mage and Hunter were won before Turn 7 shenanigans with Molten Giants and Faceless Shamblers getting work done. Plus I need him to not draw Obliterate or Blizzard, natch. Warlock is just a bog standard RenoLock game. Warrior, though, dang. He put me to 1 when I killed him. That was using his post-turn-7 hero power for 13. He hit me for 91 using that Hero Power alone. I got a Sneed's Old Shredder off... something. And Sneed's dropped a Kel-Thuzad which coupled nicely with MY Kel-Thuzad. Cripes that is a tough matchup. I had the combo in hand (Brann + Violet Illusionist + Coldlights + Thaurissan ticks) but I didn't need it.

edit//
Lost in the best way possible. I was playing Quest Priest, and the opponent was Asmodai Hunter, but played The Lich King too. We made it to late game, which favors me. She'd made some big 6/12 Taunt Beast (who cares), I am at 24 life, have "You Are Safe Now" in hand and just pinged her down to 14 with a tide of 1-drop Elementals. I didn't bother running my 3/2 and 2/3 dudes into the 6/12--seems unnecessary, and I might topdeck Mass Dispel and need them to punch though enough damage. That said, I'll be able to win next turn barring something intensely weird. She topdecks Unleash the Hounds to make 6 hasty hounds--the one card she got from The Lich King six turns ago was Anti-Magic Shell, giving her 6*3 = 18 + 6 + 2 = 26 FTW.

This is why I won't ever make Legend. Added her and we had a good laugh.
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Hearthstone Players! 21 Sep 2017 04:35 #254558

jeb wrote:
Cashed in 400 dust (Warleader) to get over the hump for Shadowreaper Anduin. It's worth it--he takes any Priest deck to the next level.

I got a copy in a pack, and just tried it out in Big Priest. It was the most absurd match. My opponent was playing a Rogue C'Thun deck which I presumed at first was just a weak experiment, but it turned out he had a plan.

I meanwhile, was starved of all the cards that make Big Priest work. Barnes and both my Shadow Essences were in the last five cards: I kid you not, by the time I drew them there were no minions left in the deck for them to act on. Lucky for me, C'thun decks are very vulnerable to all the board clear cards that Big Priest has.So I stayed alive.

He first pulled out C'thun when it was about 8/8 for the random damage, then used a card to return it to his hand. I fixed that with Healing Potion. It came out again when it was about 10/10 and I hit it with Shadow Word: Death. He had a Doomcaller to reshuffle it, though, and that's 7/9 so I had to hit that with Shadow Word: Death too.

Knowing what was coming, I'd used my spell copy spell to spin up two more copies of Shadow Word: Death. So this exact same sequence happened twice more. Lucky my deck is full of big minions to take some of that C'thun pain, but I was still very low on health and cards. Now, if you're sharp you'll have spotted this left me with a problem: my last Shadow Word got spent on a Doomcaller, so he still had C'thun in his deck.

He thought he'd won.

C'thun duly came out again and left me on about 5 health and no board. What do I have left in the tank? Shadowreaper. So I grab 2 points of healing and play the Death Knight. I'm out of heals, low on health and we're both on fatigue, but I'm the only one with minions left in my hand. Y'shaarj didn't have a minion left to summon, but his 10/10 was all I needed.

Fun as it was, that game took over 20 minutes. I don't want Hearthstone games that last 20 minutes, and if I'd been the one of the receiving end of my performance I'd have been mad as hell. This meta is too slow, and I don't see any of the nerfs making it better.
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Hearthstone Players! 21 Sep 2017 16:33 #254573

Suggestions for people who don't want 20 minute Hearthstone games and are playing Big Priest deck.
1. Play a different deck. Maybe aggro hunter or Druid. Pirate warrior. Tempo Mage or Rogue
2. Mulligan for Barnes

Its getting extremely whiney in here when your deck draws like crap and you blame it on slow meta. The meta isn't any slower than every other game being against a Reno deck. Get over it
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Hearthstone Players! 25 Sep 2017 16:44 #254772

Evolveless Thrall and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Pirate Warrior.

hsreplay.net/replay/p3UVN3MJHNVvVv5cZYsvMe

I exaggerate just a bit. The guy wasn't horrible (other than the fact that he was playing Pirate Warrior) but he did make a couple subpar plays that either reveal his inexperience with the deck or just demonstrate the obsession with tempo inherent to it that makes it pointless if your opponent has even a decent draw. I look at a hand full of curve and decide that it's fine whether I'm facing Pirate or Dead Man, since my Evolve deck isn't an aggressive one. His hand is really poor for Pirate and he immediately starts out with Upgrade and hits me for 1. Right there, I'm thinking this guy may not be the smartest. I get playing it on turn 1 if you have no other options, but to immediately waste a charge on me without waiting for something to boost it like a Bloodsail? Seems subpar. Incidentally, the one major flaw in my Evolve deck is that it has no way to deal with weapons. I should probably address that at some point...

I'm fine with just dropping a Fire Fly and he's fine with getting a 2 mana 3/3, complete with Patches. I Portal for a pretty good result, stats-wise, and spend the Coin because I want to start putting speed bumps down to get rid of some of his attackers. If I was Trump, I wouldn't do this and I would die. However, tossing away one of said speed bumps until I'm ready to eliminate his sole minion is not something I'm interested in. Specifically against decks like Pirate Warrior, I want to keep all options open to respond to whatever may come next, because as soon as he runs out of gas, the game is probably mine. I think he makes a mistake on turn 3 by not playing another 2 mana 3/3 and saving the Raider for the impending Arcanite. He got greedy for the future, rather than the present. My array of little guys could take down one, but not both. OTOH, he may have been anticipating a Flametongue that would wipe out both and to this point he probably thinks I'm playing Token.

My first Stonehill gives some intriguing choices. The most logical one seems to be the Tentacle, but I already have another 3 mana taunter in my hand and one that's far superior with the Discover ability. Soggoth is an interesting option and more durable than Al'Akir, but I like the latter for his potential offense, rather than waiting to see how my opponent will get past him, so I opt for winds to obey me and go ahead and clear the Raider and ping him with the Imp. And then turn 4 happens.

Here's where I think it's revealed that he's a less experienced player. Mortal Strike is a finisher. It's direct damage. Your opponent can have an army of Soggoths on the board and, if he's at 4 life or less (and has no Ice Block...), he's still dead. In order to keep attacking me for one whole point of damage, he spends all of his mana getting rid of a 1/4 non-threat. Hrm. I figure it's safe for me to go one offense now, so I bring out the Flametongue and test to see if he's got Fiery Not As Much Win Axe. He plays the Arcanite and uses a charge to remove the Flametongue. Huh. If he was Control, I'd be fine with that (after wondering why he was playing Arcanite Reaper.) But this is the classic MTG question: Who's the aggro? If you're the aggro deck, you don't waste one of your best burst damage cards by reducing the incoming on yourself. You play a minion or two for trades with mine or you just ignore my guys and race me. You're Pirate Warrior. You can race with anyone, especially now that bigger cards are coming to hand. So I play my other Stonehill and, despite my usual reluctance with EE, decide he's better than another Al'Akir in case my opponent does something drastic in the next couple turns. Playing a big-ass taunt on 5 would be superior to playing one on turn 8 (In no way can that be construed as an endorsement of Overload.) Meanwhile, there's another taunt for him to get past and he gets his sooper-awesome play of a 7/3 Raider on the board and the actually solid play of putting another charge on his Arcanite, which he uses to eliminate the Stonehill. OK. Pirate Warrior is rolling now!

Except that I have an assload of responses in my hand, including two that can get the Jade snowball rolling (hopefully into an Evolve of some kind...?) and I'm OK taking 9 at this point. At it turns out, I end up taking 10 and then drop the EE while clearing his big body, so it will take a lot of effort for him to do the 8 damage to get rid of it. I go ahead and take 1 more by getting rid of the Mate just to make it that much more difficult. I think he may have kind of given up here, since he drops a ton of resources to get rid of the EE and empties his hand, leaving a 3/3 minion that I can possibly remove with just another Flametongue, if not Lightning Storm since I have Wrath of Air on the table. Dumping your hand while your opponent has six cards in hand on turn 8 is usually a bad sign, even if you are a mindless face deck. Obviously, the optimal response on turn 8 is Al'Akir but, you know... Overload. So I drop out another weenie and decide that, since I can't affect the Wasp and don't care about it killing anything. I am now the aggro. Him putting me to 7 and revealing the Wasp just lets me clean up with what, in earlier, faster days of HS was one of the, uh, less appreciated class legendaries. Unless he wastes a charge of his FWA and draws the other Arcanite, he's not getting through.

And then he topdecks Reckless Rocketeer! Ha. My immediate assumption is: "Playing Arena card. Must not have all the tools for Pirate Warrior." But maybe it's deck tech? One last element of burst that would surprise people that think you're washed up after you've tossed away both Mortal Strikes? He, of course, hits me again and puts me down to 4, which is the minimum that MS does. If he'd saved one, I'd have been calculating what life I could leave HIM at because of the danger of that card. Regardless, if he topdecks the Kor'kron, I'm dead unless I win the coin flip for Stoneclaw Totem. I do and now the game is pretty much over.

So that was my Jade Shaman deck with Deathseer, both Evolves, and my Gangsters all in the bottom half of it. Seems OK.
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Hearthstone Players! 25 Sep 2017 19:06 #254784

Jackwraith wrote:
Evolveless Thrall and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Pirate Warrior.

hsreplay.net/replay/p3UVN3MJHNVvVv5cZYsvMe

I exaggerate just a bit. The guy wasn't horrible (other than the fact that he was playing Pirate Warrior) but he did make a couple subpar plays that either reveal his inexperience with the deck or just demonstrate the obsession with tempo inherent to it that makes it pointless if your opponent has even a decent draw. I look at a hand full of curve and decide that it's fine whether I'm facing Pirate or Dead Man, since my Evolve deck isn't an aggressive one. His hand is really poor for Pirate and he immediately starts out with Upgrade and hits me for 1.
And I am laughing. Do go on...
Right there, I'm thinking this guy may not be the smartest. I get playing it on turn 1 if you have no other options, but to immediately waste a charge on me without waiting for something to boost it like a Bloodsail? Seems subpar. Incidentally, the one major flaw in my Evolve deck is that it has no way to deal with weapons. I should probably address that at some point...
Gluttonous Ooze is great. I any deck outside of rush, the 3-mana cost doesn't matter, and any sub-5 Battlecry dudes are awesome in a DK Thrall deck as you can play for Battlecry, then get the DK bump. And 3-mana is perfect for the Ooze, DK, Hero Power slamma jamma. 10 mana for ~10 armor and a 7 drop on an empty board? Sounds like a Druid turn!
I'm fine with just dropping a Fire Fly and he's fine with getting a 2 mana 3/3, complete with Patches. I Portal for a pretty good result, stats-wise, and spend the Coin because I want to start putting speed bumps down to get rid of some of his attackers. If I was Trump, I wouldn't do this and I would die. However, tossing away one of said speed bumps until I'm ready to eliminate his sole minion is not something I'm interested in. Specifically against decks like Pirate Warrior, I want to keep all options open to respond to whatever may come next, because as soon as he runs out of gas, the game is probably mine. I think he makes a mistake on turn 3 by not playing another 2 mana 3/3 and saving the Raider for the impending Arcanite. He got greedy for the future, rather than the present. My array of little guys could take down one, but not both. OTOH, he may have been anticipating a Flametongue that would wipe out both and to this point he probably thinks I'm playing Token.
I disagree with this assessment. I think the opponent is bad (see Turn 1), and there is no way someone that bad plays around Flametongue here. No chance. I would assume they are bad, and thinking maybe Lightning Storm and hoping you low roll. The outcome is the same. Just my $0.02.
My first Stonehill gives some intriguing choices. The most logical one seems to be the Tentacle, but I already have another 3 mana taunter in my hand and one that's far superior with the Discover ability. Soggoth is an interesting option and more durable than Al'Akir, but I like the latter for his potential offense, rather than waiting to see how my opponent will get past him, so I opt for winds to obey me and go ahead and clear the Raider and ping him with the Imp. And then turn 4 happens.
Same thinking--bad player is bad, so you don't need to panic pick the Tentacle and can play for the long game with Al-Akir, whose Charge and DS let you control the game. Soggoth is big, but just too slow--solid pick against Mage and Warlock, less so against Pirate Warrior and Asmo Hunters.
Here's where I think it's revealed that he's a less experienced player. Mortal Strike is a finisher. It's direct damage. Your opponent can have an army of Soggoths on the board and, if he's at 4 life or less (and has no Ice Block...), he's still dead. In order to keep attacking me for one whole point of damage, he spends all of his mana getting rid of a 1/4 non-threat. Hrm. I figure it's safe for me to go one offense now, so I bring out the Flametongue and test to see if he's got Fiery Not As Much Win Axe. He plays the Arcanite and uses a charge to remove the Flametongue. Huh. If he was Control, I'd be fine with that (after wondering why he was playing Arcanite Reaper.) But this is the classic MTG question: Who's the aggro? If you're the aggro deck, you don't waste one of your best burst damage cards by reducing the incoming on yourself. You play a minion or two for trades with mine or you just ignore my guys and race me. You're Pirate Warrior. You can race with anyone, especially now that bigger cards are coming to hand. So I play my other Stonehill and, despite my usual reluctance with EE, decide he's better than another Al'Akir in case my opponent does something drastic in the next couple turns. Playing a big-ass taunt on 5 would be superior to playing one on turn 8 (In no way can that be construed as an endorsement of Overload.) Meanwhile, there's another taunt for him to get past and he gets his sooper-awesome play of a 7/3 Raider on the board and the actually solid play of putting another charge on his Arcanite, which he uses to eliminate the Stonehill. OK. Pirate Warrior is rolling now!
Pirate is rolling on turn 8 has me laughing again. I hope this guy was taking notes from turn 6 on, as that's the turn a real PW would have conceded.
Except that I have an assload of responses in my hand, including two that can get the Jade snowball rolling (hopefully into an Evolve of some kind...?) and I'm OK taking 9 at this point. At it turns out, I end up taking 10 and then drop the EE while clearing his big body, so it will take a lot of effort for him to do the 8 damage to get rid of it. I go ahead and take 1 more by getting rid of the Mate just to make it that much more difficult. I think he may have kind of given up here, since he drops a ton of resources to get rid of the EE and empties his hand, leaving a 3/3 minion that I can possibly remove with just another Flametongue, if not Lightning Storm since I have Wrath of Air on the table. Dumping your hand while your opponent has six cards in hand on turn 8 is usually a bad sign, even if you are a mindless face deck. Obviously, the optimal response on turn 8 is Al'Akir but, you know... Overload. So I drop out another weenie and decide that, since I can't affect the Wasp and don't care about it killing anything. I am now the aggro. Him putting me to 7 and revealing the Wasp just lets me clean up with what, in earlier, faster days of HS was one of the, uh, less appreciated class legendaries. Unless he wastes a charge of his FWA and draws the other Arcanite, he's not getting through.
Yeah, this is an interesting moment in all PW games--when do you kill them. If you get the board, you need to be killing them--they will draw into some bullshit and maybe win a squeaker. With Hunter, you can spot this moment pretty early ("He trades!"). With other classes, it's a function of hand, draws, lifegain potential, &c.
And then he topdecks Reckless Rocketeer! Ha. My immediate assumption is: "Playing Arena card. Must not have all the tools for Pirate Warrior." But maybe it's deck tech? One last element of burst that would surprise people that think you're washed up after you've tossed away both Mortal Strikes? He, of course, hits me again and puts me down to 4, which is the minimum that MS does. If he'd saved one, I'd have been calculating what life I could leave HIM at because of the danger of that card. Regardless, if he topdecks the Kor'kron, I'm dead unless I win the coin flip for Stoneclaw Totem. I do and now the game is pretty much over.

So that was my Jade Shaman deck with Deathseer, both Evolves, and my Gangsters all in the bottom half of it. Seems OK.
This is a newer player or new account for older player and doesn't have Leeroy. That's how you read Reckless Rocketeer. You can immediately say, "They do not have Leeroy Jenkins in this deck." Even a pretty bad player can get Pirate Warrior to Rank 15, though (/me looks at the camera with a knowing glance.)

I just got DK Thrall in a pack (yay!), so now I can look at that kind of deck too. I am going to head down this Jackwraith road myself, and explore the Evolve-less route. I am going with Elementals, and will also look at Totems (can't resist as long as Wicked Witchdoctor exists). Going to include Hallazeal + damage here and there for recovery, along with Jinyu and other annoying shit.
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Hearthstone Players! 25 Sep 2017 20:22 #254787

Mind you, my deck is not supposed to be Evolve-less. It just happened to be in this case. I've thought about Hallazeal a lot in recent days, but realized that I don't really favor his function because Shaman spells aren't as useful as their minion options. Lightning Storm still hampers you for two mana but is played because you don't have other options. But with Hallazeal costing 5 already, you're not often going to have the option to use him more than once, which seems subpar for a 5 cost legendary. The only other good option (please don't run Avalanche) is Volcano, which likely eats the Hallazeal and the combo costs you 10 mana, by which turn you're often dead or want to do something other than maybe gain 15 life, not knowing if your opponent is still going to have Y'Shaarj on the board. Shit. Priest can do that for 4 mana and not kill one of their own minions in the process.

Good point about Gluttonous. I'm so old-school that I kept thinking about the other Ooze and Harrison, one of which doesn't do enough for this deck and the other of which is too slow and unnecessary with two Mana Tide. But what do I cut for the Ooze? Guess I could dump a Hex or a Devolve. I'm still reluctant to abandon my Volcano.
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