HELLBOY 2

OK, so I walked out of HELLBOY 2 thinking "OH MY FUCKING GOD THAT WAS AWESOME". I had my eyes punched over and over again by some of the absolute best creature design and practical effects work I've ever seen. I saw cool comic book characters brought to faithful life on the big screen. I saw the tone and atmosphere of the Mignola books translated almost perfectly. There were at least four scenes (the faux puppet intro, the troll market, the fight with the forest elemental, and the grand finale with the Golden Army) that were among the best ever seen in a fantasy feature. And there was real, honest to god heart- it all meant something, and the classic "maybe the monsters are right" theme was brilliantly conveyed in a couple of pieces of dialogue.

Yet, a day later, I feel like I have no desire to ever watch it again. It's weird, I really liked the movie but I almost feel like if I see it again problems like some of the strangely sloppy dubbing on the young Hellboy, the boring and completely uninteresting relationship between Liz and Big Red, and the failure of the screenplay to really follow through on some of its more interesting elements (like when the crowd turns on Hellboy) and ramifactions will somehow diminish its virtues, of which there are many. I guess I want to remember it how you remembered movies back when you were a kid and only got to see something once and there wasn't an internet to hyperanalyze and hypercriticize everything...I don't want to pick it apart into its constiuent parts. I'd rather just remember it than re-experience it.

It was a fun, fun movie, very well made and full of pure love for the material. It has all the heart and soul that movies like IRON MAN don't have. If you like to see monsters punching each other or like me you flipped over the creature design in the otherwise boring PAN'S LABYRINTH, then you'll likely get your money's worth. It's definitely Del Toro in crowdpleaser monster movie mode, and I think I like that better than Del Toro in "I want to make a legitimate piece of cinema with a monster in it" mode.

It's funny though...if you think about it, the whole thing really is like GHOSTBUSTERS writ large and with more of a comic book millieu.

I agree almost 100%. My main complaints were the at times badly stilted dialogue (but honestly, as much as I love Mignola's comics, the dialogue isn't always his strong suit) and some of the odd swings in tone.

It felt like it swung a little to quickly from borderline slapstick (albeit, well done slapstick) to ultra-serious. Also, what about Selma Blair's previous performances made them think that she could pull off all of the emotion they were trying to milk out of her. I love her, but if there's one thing she doesn't have a whole lot of, its emotional range.

I was a little disappointed in Abe as well, his storyline didn't grab me at all. These things said, I definitely enjoyed it, and I think it was a good film. I only wish that they could have worked more of the Mignola-verse background into it.

The audience has spoken. We want Lobster Johnson.

Yeah, I think the effusive praise the picture is getting in some quarters is kind of ignoring the fact that there are a lot of really pretty dodgy bits to it...the first movie, while good, still kind of came off awkwardly. This one does the same in more than a few places. The Barry Manilow thing was more lame than funny, Liz Sherman is just a terrible character (I think Selma Blair is likely doing the best she can with an underwritten and uninteresting role), and there's little or no motivation for certain characters to behave as they do- Krauss is a great example. Why is he crazy German efficiency guy? Why does he change his mind and get with the cool kids at the end?

But there again, when it's all action, motion, and imagination the movie is unstoppable...tooth fairies, halfie goblin engineers, marbleized elf corpses, some dude with a cathedral for a hat, metaphysical foreign object removal, elven taekwondo stuff...there's so MUCH of the great stuff it almost feels like criticizing the points where the movie wasn't so good is even more nitpicky than usual. But there were definitely areas that were either ignored or neglected.

You know what I really think? If this hadn't have been a HELLBOY film, it probably would have been a lot better...because all of the things that are shaky about it go back to it being a HELLBOY film. All new characters, a new world...it could have really been something groundbreaking and iconic. But it's tied to a character that most people know only from a marginal-at-best action movie from a few years ago. It has certain expectations attached to it...and the LAST thing I wanted to have in a movie this filled to bursting with visionary ideas was expectations.

It got some friends and I to sing a Barry Manilow song after leaving. That's either high praise or reason to loathe it. I'm not sure which yet.

That Barry scene was awesome. Drove home their humanity.

I think the Liz Sherman role is interesting, if minute. Liz (the char) doesn't have emotional range because she'll kill everyone if she's in a bad mood. Kind of a girly Hulk--Selma Blair's a good fit there.

What I especially LIKED, was the lack of exposition. It still has TONS, mind you, but del Toro doesn't assume that his audience are all fucking idiots. If George Lucas had helmed this, and the Elven king turned into marble, a fucking muppet would have popped up explaining that "Elves turn into marble when they die." The creature effects are superb. Del Toro has himself an eyeless fetish though. Not as bad as Mr. Lucas' hand-removal thing, but it's getting there.

DIDN'T LIKE: Too much deus ex machina. "Let's go to the Giant's Causeway. Hey look! Someone who know exactly what's going on and can resolve massive plot points 1 through 4 inclusive. Nice!" Young Hellboy's dubbing was more than likely a function of that fucking massive dentifrice they jammed in there. No one could talk through those teeth. It's tough to loop lines to an actor's mouth when his mouth is full of plastic.

That Barry scene was awesome. Drove home their humanity.

What does that scene do that Hellboy being a "regular guy" drinking beer, collecting records, loving cats (and babies), getting into boyfriend/girlfriend spats over the dishes and so on and so on doesn't already? How about the fact that Abe is really just a smarty pants nerd that reads Tennyson and falls in love with a scarred-up goth girl just like what happens in real life? Or that the whole concept of Hellboy is predicated on "gee whiz, them monsters and weirdos is like us in alotaways, if you think about it". It didn't drive it home, it went back, picked it up, drove it around town on a Tecate-fueled joyride, got a little action, and then back home.

The scene was just a touch too over the top, too cutesy-pants for its own good. I liked seeing them drink. I liked them discussing those oh-so-hilarious foibles that make men different from women, but then the singing was just that one step too far.

It's still not nearly as bad as when Judge Dredd kissed a woman in that terrible picture from the dark ages of comic book movies...no screenwriter who knows Dredd would have him love anything other than the Law.

If George Lucas had helmed this, and the Elven king turned into marble, a fucking muppet would have popped up explaining that "Elves turn into marble when they die."

Ah, but the muppet would have shown up in another film twenty years later revealing that such a detail was "always" intended to be part of the story. Just like how Boba Fett was "always" the blueprint for Stormtroopers, going back to when he was ridin' on that dragon in the STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL.

You're right, there's not a whole lot of exposition and that really shows the faith that they had in the material to explain itself and in the audience to buy into it without elaboration. What exposition _was_ there was totally diegetic and natural- like Abe reading about the tooth fairies.

There is some real movie magic in this picture though, despite my snobby bitching...Hellboy waiting for Santa Claus, the sense of awe, wonder, and finality after the Forest thing dies (which was, for my money, the closest any live action film has gotten to capturing "that Miyazaki feeling"), the sadness and sense of loss when the death of the main bad guy turns out to be a tragic and catastrophic extinction, the simple and good-natured physical comedy when Red punches Krauss and Krauss retaliates...that was one of my favorite moments in the entire film, when he's standing there over Krauss's empty suit and there's this great beat where he's like "Um...shit."

Has anybody noticed that if Del Toro has a fetish for anything it's stuff wrapped in plastic bags hanging from ceilings? I think there's a scene in every film where _something_ is hanging up in plastic bags. Goes all the way back to KRONOS...

Michael Barnes wrote:

If you like to see monsters punching each other or like me you flipped over the creature design in the otherwise boring PAN'S LABYRINTH,

Can we kick this fucking chowderhead off the site?

Michael Barnes wrote:

The scene was just a touch too over the top, too cutesy-pants for its own good. I liked seeing them drink. I liked them discussing those oh-so-hilarious foibles that make men different from women, but then the singing was just that one step too far.

That scene had everyone in my theater laughing hysterically. Yeah they were pointing out in other places that the characters are human-ish, but that's where it actually worked imo. Because it was so over the top it brought those characters to life more than anything in either movie did. And it led to the great use of a freeze-frame at the very end when the song starts playing again.

There were a lot of good scenes in the movie, but the plot stringing them together was pretty weak. I'm sure I'll watch it again someday, but mainly to see certain scenes again not the movie again.

And it led to the great use of a freeze-frame at the very end when the song starts playing again.

OK, I have to admit, that was an awesome follow-up...

You're really right, Mad Dog...it totally worked as a crowd pleaser...and I guess for that I have to give it a point.

But what do I know...I only thought PAN'S was "OK"...obviously my opinion is garbage anyway!

Michael Barnes wrote:

But what do I know...I only thought PAN'S was "OK"...obviously my opinion is garbage anyway!

No, your opinion is shithouse. That was established ages ago:

Mark E. Smith can sing.
WoW:tbg Sucks.
Pan's Labyrinth was boring.
"Indy and the alien discotek of WTF" was ok.
Hancock was crap.
Vegimite tastes like AIDs.
Chicks with Dicks can look hot under the correct lighting.

It's like a Conga Line of Ka-ka. You should seriously have a job at the UN.

Meanwhile Hellboy 2 isn't out over here for another 2 months. (sad face)

Michael Barnes wrote:

That Barry scene was awesome. Drove home their humanity.

Ah, but the muppet would have shown up in another film twenty years later revealing that such a detail was "always" intended to be part of the story. Just like how Boba Fett was "always" the blueprint for Stormtroopers, going back to when he was ridin' on that dragon in the STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL.

You are an evil, evil man for mentioning that crap that was the SWHS.

--Mike L.

Ok. I just saw it. It's a fairly good movie that is simultaneously totally amazing. This is the first film I have personally seen where I wasn't wishing all the CGI effects were puppetry and other physical medium the entire time. That is a huge compliment from me.

On the other hand, this is probably the least intellectual movie I've seen in 5 years. And I don't like or watch almost any intellectual movies. It was *dumb.* Most of it in a good way, some of it in a cringe inducing way. I do wonder if MB point about the Hellboy license being a liability here for Del Toro's vision is true. The guy has such an absolutely stunning ability to direct special effects that I can't really think of anything more to say about it. This is the man who should direct (but not write!!!) the next "big" special effects trilogy or series. The scene in the "troll bridge" area was basically a cantina from star wars caliber scene for CGI characters--the first time when it all totally came together and made me completely visually absorbed and believe the environment using CGI.

"Guillermo del Toro shouldn't write." "Pan's Labyrinth is OK." I am disappointed. These comments are right up there with my friend who doesn't watch many moives coming out of Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King and saying, "The battle scenes were good but they should just have scrapped all the stuff with the little guys that was totally boring."

That reminds me, I took the little cousins to see Prince Caspian on the weekend and it totally owned Return of the King.