Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

KK
Kevin Klemme
March 09, 2020
35156 2
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
January 27, 2020
20835 0
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
August 12, 2019
7426 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 19, 2023
3980 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 14, 2023
3505 0
Hot

Mycelia Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 12, 2023
2078 0
O
oliverkinne
December 07, 2023
2586 0

River Wild Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 05, 2023
2256 0
O
oliverkinne
November 30, 2023
2498 0
J
Jackwraith
November 29, 2023
3019 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 28, 2023
1973 0
S
Spitfireixa
October 24, 2023
3696 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 17, 2023
2625 0
O
oliverkinne
October 10, 2023
2462 0
O
oliverkinne
October 09, 2023
2291 0
O
oliverkinne
October 06, 2023
2508 0

Outback Crossing Review

Board Game Reviews
×
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Talk about other nerd culture stuff in here.

Back to the 'good old days'.

More
30 Dec 2015 11:20 - 30 Dec 2015 11:20 #218597 by ThirstyMan
I know we don't usually discuss this type of thing but in the light of this years headlines, I thought it might be interesting. This is an analysis of the fallacy of believing that things were better way back in the <insert your decade here>. I found it to be very interesting and thought provoking.

>>What does it mean to be radicalized? In a rare Oval Office address in the wake of the San Bernardino massacre, President Barack Obama described the killers as having “gone down the dark path of radicalization.” It used to be extremists. We were fighting extremists in the equally nebulous War on Terror. Then someone found a thesaurus and now we’re battling radicalization. “[It] is the responsibility of Muslims around the world to root out misguided ideas that lead to radicalization,” urged Obama. What are these ideas exactly?

Every group of radicals nee extremists—from ISIS to the Klan to the House GOP’s Freedom Caucus—all have the same lure: Today is chaotic, unpredictable and worse than it was, so we must return to a time when things were better. A well-proven formula for radicalization is to take the disorientated, disenfranchised and disappointed; add a universal yarn about the Good Ol’ Days and stir.

Let’s examine some backward reasoning about the past: “Back to basics,” you’ll hear. Back to the values of the founders! Original intent! Back to the peacefulness of ancient times. Back to the core of the Koran. Back to the tranquility of our ancestors! Paleo diet, anyone? Fundamentalists use this concept in their own moniker; they’re going back to fundamentals. Even New Agers peddle this idea. The site SacredEarth.com says, “Once upon a time—not too long ago, the ancient craft of midwifery and the art of herbal healing were intimately linked.” Yeah sure, back in the good old days when women had a 50/50 chance of dying during childbirth. Just a quick Google search of “alternative medicine” will land you in a sea of alternate history. As one site touting amber as a pain reliever puts it, “For many centuries since time began, people have used nature’s bounty for traditional medicine.”

Once, I went to the Brooklyn Flea Market and there was a ratty chair kept together by electrical tape. The price tag was a whopping $250! When I asked the seller if that was a typo, he responded “No,” shocked by the question. “It’s old.” Which is essentially what alternative medicine is saying. “Back when people only lived to 35, they knew better than us!”

When times are difficult, there’s an innate desire to get back to paradise, back to the proverbial Garden of Eden—back to the safety and comfort of the womb. Back to that time when everything was pristine, everything was simple. Back to childhood. We were better then and the times reflected that. There’s a desire to retrace our steps and go back to a time before it all went wrong. In short: Humans really want a reset button.

The Republican Party—and conservatives specifically—tout the 1950s as being the storied time they want to get us back to. That’s when America was great and it was great to be American! GOP front-runner Donald Trump’s slogan is “make this country great again.” Also-ran Carly Fiorina’s is the boilerplate, “take our country back.” That was also the battle cry of the tea party. They wanted to take their country back, I assumed they meant from the black guy running it, but they’d tell you it was to take the country back to the Eisenhower administration. “Brian Williams began his report on the death of Annette Funicello,” writes Toni Bernhard in Psychology Today, “by wistfully referring to the 1950s as ‘a sweeter era, one of genuine innocence.’”

In the online forum Topix, a user named Comesen wrote, “Back in the 1950s, times were truly more wholesome. When you came home, you had a good snack and did your homework and went out to play. These days, the kids come home, eat these sugary fat-filled snacks and get on them video games. Back then, you knew your neighbors and in general they were always nice people. If someone new moved in, your mom made them a pie or a jell-o and welcomed them to the neighborhood. These days, hardly anyone can say they know their neighbors and if someone new moves in, everyone is always suspicious of them.”

There’s at least some anecdotal evidence Comesen was a child in the 1950s and completely missed the Red Scare, McCarthyism and an equally terrifying polio epidemic. Let’s not forget segregation, thalidomide and lobotomies. Also from a conservative perspective, the top tax rate was 70 percent, way higher taxes than we have now.

But nostalgia isn’t rational; it’s a feeling. It’s a fantasy. And when it comes to the 1950s it’s a pretty widespread delusion. In November 2015, Public Religion Research Institute in a poll asked, “Since the 1950s, do you think American culture and way of life has mostly changed for the better, or has it mostly changed for the worse?” Fifty-three percent of respondents said the culture has changed for the worse.

Meaning: More than half of Americans won’t simply admit that the Civil Rights Act moved the country forward and Leave it To Beaver was absolute dreck.

But this idea is a motivator. It makes people believe if we just get back to those principles, like police brutalizing and jailing homosexuals, we can be good once again. In an Alcoholics Anonymous off shoot known as the Pacific Group, members believe if they wear suits (and, respectively, dresses) like they did in the 1950s, forgo all psychotropic drugs and don’t swear, they’re more hardcore and therefore more likely to stay sober.

The Garden of Eden myth is something to hold onto. To the distressed, the Good Ol’ Days is the perfect oh shit handle.

Of course in the 1950s, groups like the Klan were trying to get the country back to the 1850s. In the 1850s, groups like the Know Nothings, who opposed Catholic immigrants, were trying to get the country back to the 1810s. In the 1600s, the Puritans were trying to get their country back to the Old Testament. We should all go back to a time before nostalgia was used to manipulate people.

In this idea of getting back to an age of innocence is also a demand for purity: Getting out all the toxins, contaminants and pollutants. Again, New Agers have capitalized on this idea by convincing people they’re full of—wait for it—chemicals (like the chemical compound H2O!) and all they need to do is rid their bodies of artificial invaders and they’ll be like the ancients who were better in every way.

But it also assists in extremism. If now is evil and soiled and we must get back to paradise—there’s no compromising. There’s no time to deal with squishes. You have to be 100 percent committed to the goal! You have to be totally onboard with biblical principles, ancient wisdom or the mores of 500 AD Arabia. If you believe that we have to get back to a specific time and cleanse ourselves of the sins of our current state, then anyone who tries to temper that idea is part of the problem. Truly you can’t negotiate with extremists—that’s what makes them extremists.

We are all born with the reality someday we will die. Adhering to tradition is a way to extend one’s life. You get to become part of something that existed before you were here, something bigger than yourself. It is like eternal life. And renewing that tradition—going back to it—making it viable for the next generation can seem like a way of overwriting death. Suicide bombers and martyrs are willing to die for a cause because they believe they’re giving that cause longer life and by extension themselves. And in the middle of power vacuums and failed states like some in the Middle East, it’s not hard to see how futility can easily be honed into extremism.

But extremism isn’t just a vice someone picks up on some nefarious Internet forum. It’s a fight or flight response. It’s a reaction to an existential crisis. It’s taking the tiny seed of instinct about mortality, growing it into a giant species-wide folly and then taking it too far.

Commentators love to parrot that ISIS is rejecting modernity. San Bernardino shooter Tashfeen Malik’s profile in the Los Angeles Times quoted her friends as confused by what she’d done, saying she seemed like a modern girl. How can one exactly reject modernity while making YouTube videos and trolling Twitter? You cannot. These extremists aren’t saying no to technology, they’re just wrongly convinced ancient is better because like other sellers of junk have proclaimed, “It’s old!” So slavery, rape and beheadings—these are all things god prescribed when he wrote holy books; now we’re exiled from Eden so it’s time to start raping again! (I promise it’s okay to find comfort in ISIS using the same ruse people have used “for many centuries since time began.”)

This folklore is also at the core of doomsday predictions. The world is so wicked and crooked—so far from god—that god has no choice but to end it all and start anew. People have been certain they’re in the End Times since the beginning of times.

All extremism resonates more in times of social upheaval. We need look no farther than the 1960s where the seeming chaos of the Vietnam Era spurred Americans to flock en masse to cults and communes. But even in times of relative peace and inclusion, the present is always unpredictable and therefore frightening. The past, especially a made-up fairy tale of the past, is less frightening because, well, we know what happens: We survive!

Presently, there are horror stories about our children being recruited by ISIS—jumping on planes to become terrorists! The reports in the media talk about radicalization like it were Ebola—it’s worse overseas but it could come here!! There are think pieces about this need to protect our children from ISIS like we protect them from pool drownings. There’s a real Satanic Panic vibe to the stories. It’s Invasion of the Body Snatchers meets Not Without My Daughter. One CNN headline from 2014 read, “3 Denver girls played hooky from school and tried to join ISIS.”

There’s a much more reasoned explanation as to why an estimated couple hundred American youths are yearning for more in their lives and consider ISIS as an option. Mohammed Hamzah Khan, 19, from the Chicago suburbs was arrested in 2014 for trying to join ISIS. The note he left with his mother read: “ISIS had established the perfect Islamic state and that he felt obligated to ‘migrate’ there.” He’d heard of this Utopia and was hoping to get there. Rolling Stone writes, “Steeped in the stories of Muhammad, his companions, and the sultans and caliphs who came after them, Hamzah viewed those days as a ‘simpler’ era when Islam flourished across a vast empire, or Caliphate, and the Muslim ummah, or global community, was united.” In short: In a polluted world, ISIS is offering a lonely kid something pure. And better yet, a chance at the glory of the old days.

At least two other American recruits were homeschooled Christians; meaning already isolated on the fringe. A woman identified by the New York Times only as Alex, a Sunday school teacher’s whose home was in the middle of wheat and alfalfa fields was still, at 23, babysitting for money and living with her grandmother. Others were lost, restless and idealistic in their own right (read: vulnerable). This is no mystery; we’ve seen this before. In the 1960s everyone was running away from home to join some counter-culture group. Everyone, it seemed, wanted to get back to a time when things weren’t so turbulent. And the Moonies offered that or, in the case of my parents, the international pedophile crime syndicate known as the Children of God was their ticket.

So why now? Today’s American kids are the first generation ever to be worse off than their parents: College is more expensive, jobs pay less, upward mobility is more rare, they’re more likely to be obese, etc. Statistically, there was actually a storied time in the past where it was better to be a 21-year-old American. And this current crop of unlucky youths are primed for legends about these better times. ISIS is taking the legitimate angst the “kids these days” wrestle with, giving it a label and an apparent antidote.

The social psychologist Leon Festinger, who coined the phrase cognitive dissonance in his classic work, When Prophesy Fails, noted a doubling-down effect from true believers, in this case a UFO cult awaiting the mother ship to arrive to whisk them away from a doomed Earth. After the doomsday came and went, instead of being disillusioned, true believers upped the ante: They became more resolute and, yes, more extreme in their convictions; more malleable and more motivated in their fervor. It’s a paradoxical quirk of our psyches: The further away paradise is, the closer it seems.

It’s not that extremists are losers; according to social scientists, failure makes people more extreme.

So why can’t we wage a war on extremists? Why can’t we just embrace the moderates to counter extremists? Because extremists aren’t born, they’re forged in failed states, failed prophesy and, yes, failed ideas. Social upheaval, isolation, perceived humiliation or moral outrage, powerlessness and/or scarcity are what make extremists, not some innate evil.

The Garden of Eden myth is the perfect failed idea. It will always disappoint and therefore always aid in extremism.

What we really need to do is go back to the days before this was a thing!
<<

That was by Tina Dupuy, the host of Cultish, a podcast about extremism.

Bring on your thoughts.
Last edit: 30 Dec 2015 11:20 by ThirstyMan.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, Michael Barnes, metalface13, Gary Sax, Sagrilarus, OldHippy, Frohike, wadenels

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 11:56 #218601 by Sagrilarus
My browser just ate a long response to this. The short version -- Witness. Every era has had its Hun, or its Mongol, or its Apache. Every ethnic group on Earth can list its bad guys. We're living in what is by far the safest era in world history, but we're still not happy.

The bigger question is this -- since when is government tasked with providing us with absolute safety?
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kailes, ThirstyMan, cdennett

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 12:12 #218606 by Michael Barnes
Very interesting- connecting nostalgia to extremism yields a rationale I had not considered so explicitly.

What I get really tired of is this delusion that things like houses, cars, furniture, guitars, clothes or whatever USED to be made by these mythical master craftsmen that mythically really cared about their work using mythical materials that no longer exist and mythical techniques that have been discontinued in the face of mass production and cost-cutting. That is why there has been in recent years this trend toward "craft" everything...mythical bearded dudes in flannel that mythically care about their work using these mythical materials and mythical techniques to make beer, corn dogs, light bulbs, cotton candy, flatware, etc.

What it comes back to is what Goethe said about nostalgia- "At the end of their lives, all men look back and think that their youth was Arcadia."

But as far as ISIS goes, this piece really gets to what is driving the "glamour" of it, why it is attracting young people in much the same way that gangs do, or Jim Jones did, or how any kind of extremist sect or cult does...it's an alternative. And one facet of their "culture", such as it is, that is CONSTANTLY glossed over is that they are one of the only Muslim groups that has a specific eschatology. They WANT to provoke Armageddon, the whole thing where they'll defeat the armies of Rome and so forth. But that promise of end times- which ties right back into that Goethe quote, being at the end of things- is also a promise of renewal and of change. If you are a dissatisfied, marginalized Muslim youth then some of what ISIS is selling is going to appeal to you. Because they are telling you "let's make it how it used to be again".

But on the flipside of that, it reminds me of another quote. This one from James Murphy, LCD Soundystem. In "Losing My Edge", he mentions how kids have "borrowed nostalgia for the unremembered eighties". In other words, the kids back in the early '00s listening to Duran Duran, selling their guitars to buy synths because they want to make a Yaz record and so forth as the song suggests, are nostalgic for times they never experienced. The same with Isis. I would be willing to bet that barring a handful of elders, NONE of ISIS's population, membership or whatever have grown up during or experienced a period of Muslim prosperity or ascendency. What they appeal to- just like Hitler and the Third Reich did- is this myth of former glory. We're going to get it back, all that we lost because of those people over there that did this to us. When in reality, it's a impossibly complicated matrix of cause and effect that has resulted in the current situation in Middle East. But it's easy for young people in particular to say "they bombed us, they are the reason that Islam is suffering."

In the US, you can see that Donald Trump is doing the SAME THING...his entire campaign is effectively run on the slogan "Let's Make America Great Again". That is exactly the same marketing as the Third Reich and ISIS. But it appeals here to older conservatives rather than radical youth. Because he wants to get to that sense that America used to have all of these wonderful values, integrity, etc...an interesting facet is how he seems to be totally OK with bringing back the bad stuff too. But it's really quite genius marketing, because he has taken that whole "thanks Obama" mentality" and leveraged it to pretty much invert these notions of progress and inclusion that were, for better or worse, fostered during the Obama presidency. So all of these conservatives have a candidate telling them "I'm going to reset things back to how they were, because the old days were better, weren't they?"

Interesting subject that crosses into a lot of areas...even board games...were those old Avalon Hill/SPI games really "better" than anything today? Was FFG's lineup circa 2006-2008 actually "better"?
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, metalface13, Gary Sax, Black Barney, ThirstyMan, Hadik

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 12:16 - 30 Dec 2015 12:24 #218608 by Gary Sax
Agree with it for the most part. Really this is all just repeating over and over. Guess what? 130 years ago was the gilded age as well with a lot of close parallels, including re: extremism.

Overall, it still all makes me laugh, even though I know most of the research behind opinion formation due to my profession. We're worried about a few deaths from a vague threat, the 21st century version of the anarchist movement, and will go to any lengths $$$ and human rightswise to prevent it (and fail to do so). Yet the public around the world is totally fine with the climate change literally ending the world as we know it. Enjoy the balmy above freezing weather in the arctic today, everybody.

My wife and I honestly won't have kids in significant part (though not only) because of climate change. Hearing people (esp. Evangelical climate deniers) talk about "the world we're leaving our children" is deeply, darkly, comedic. But heartbreaking. I wouldn't create a child to live through the hell that we're going to be going through in the next 500 years. But I'll be dead for much of it so that's fine.
Last edit: 30 Dec 2015 12:24 by Gary Sax.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ThirstyMan, Hadik

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 12:39 #218616 by ChristopherMD
Please move this discussion to our Religion, Politics, and Fucking forum.
The following user(s) said Thank You: VonTush, ThirstyMan, engineer Al

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 12:45 #218619 by Gary Sax
Maybe a mod can move it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 12:55 #218626 by bendgar
I would like to go back to a day before Italics.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 13:22 - 30 Dec 2015 13:37 #218632 by ThirstyMan

Gary Sax wrote: Maybe a mod can move it.


He was linking to BGG where it is heresy to discuss anything other than the latest eurogame or the latest hotness.



]

bendgar wrote: I would like to go back to a day before Italics.


Yeah, sorry about that. I couldn't think of an easy way of separating my words from hers.
Last edit: 30 Dec 2015 13:37 by ThirstyMan.
The following user(s) said Thank You: bendgar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 13:50 #218634 by metalface13
Interesting read and good thoughts, people.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ThirstyMan

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 13:57 #218635 by ThirstyMan

Gary Sax wrote: My wife and I honestly won't have kids in significant part (though not only) because of climate change. Hearing people (esp. Evangelical climate deniers) talk about "the world we're leaving our children" is deeply, darkly, comedic. But heartbreaking. I wouldn't create a child to live through the hell that we're going to be going through in the next 500 years. But I'll be dead for much of it so that's fine.


I heard this a lot in the 80s but regarding the likelihood of nuclear war. I think every age has its fear of catastrophe, it's just a different catastrophe. Pretty sure if you had grown up during WW1 or WW2 you would have had sound arguments for not having children.

There will always be a threat of global catastrophe of some kind or other.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Space Ghost, Kailes, Hadik

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 20:11 - 30 Dec 2015 20:14 #218684 by Hadik
Replied by Hadik on topic Back to the 'good old days'.
In 1967 thirty rifle-toting Black Panthers occupied the steps of the California State Capitol building in Sacramento. They went to protest a move by California *conservatives* to implement gun control. Govenor Ronald Reagan was waiting on the Capitol lawn when they arrived. What amazes me is that the response was moderate. The situation was allowed to unfold until it diffused - after a brief occupation the protesters were disarmed. Imagine if anything close to that happened today. Instant bloodbath. I guess I would say those were the good old days.
Last edit: 30 Dec 2015 20:14 by Hadik. Reason: Typo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 21:05 #218690 by SuperflyPete
If only people would become little Fonzies. Just be cool, don't get into people's business...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
More
30 Dec 2015 22:59 #218696 by Gary Sax

Dan Lamb wrote: In 1967 thirty rifle-toting Black Panthers occupied the steps of the California State Capitol building in Sacramento. They went to protest a move by California *conservatives* to implement gun control. Govenor Ronald Reagan was waiting on the Capitol lawn when they arrived. What amazes me is that the response was moderate. The situation was allowed to unfold until it diffused - after a brief occupation the protesters were disarmed. Imagine if anything close to that happened today. Instant bloodbath. I guess I would say those were the good old days.


That was back when the NRA was pro-gun control for the same reason.

Well, I guess I'll say I hope you guys are right about climate change just being another nuclear war, malthusian population explosion, agricultural supply scare, etc. I don't see it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2015 23:50 #218700 by SuperflyPete
It was 60F on Christmas.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Gary Sax
Time to create page: 0.294 seconds