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So you want to build a board game?
- hotseatgames
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- SuperflyPete
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We spent 6 hours + play testing Seal Team Flix and the whole damned time we were laughing, high-fiving, and thinking about how to beat it next time.
We had a blast, and so much so that we have video proof of you making 8 consecutive misses and then a crazy one-shotter that made both of us get up and do the happy dance.
When we playtested Hoodrats (we meaning my group) we got fucked up and started talking like gangsters and shit. It was a blast and we played it regularly 2-3 times a night. And now that it's done and has been for 6 months I'm still getting ideas from people on what the next over-the-top expansion will be.
"Pimp hands, prostitutes, and pharmacies" is the next LOL
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The last time that I playtested my current game was actually pretty enjoyable, at least after teaching the rules. The players discovered some important issues that I needed to address, but everybody had fun. More importantly, there was actual consensus between the seven playtesters on the elements that needed to be improved, and one of my subsequent fixes addressed several issues at once.
My worst playtest revealed several major issues early on, and they were so big that I shut down the game before it was even half over. That was still a worthwhile experience because I learned a lot in a short period of time.
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I've found asking these questions of your design can be really valuable for both novice and experienced game designers.
There are also a lot of resources out there, including bgdf.com and cardboardedison.com, plus Ludology of course, which focuses on game design.
Geoff
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- hotseatgames
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SuperflyTNT wrote: I call bullshit.
We spent 6 hours + play testing Seal Team Flix and the whole damned time we were laughing, high-fiving, and thinking about how to beat it next time.
We had a blast, and so much so that we have video proof of you making 8 consecutive misses and then a crazy one-shotter that made both of us get up and do the happy dance.
When we playtested Hoodrats (we meaning my group) we got fucked up and started talking like gangsters and shit. It was a blast and we played it regularly 2-3 times a night. And now that it's done and has been for 6 months I'm still getting ideas from people on what the next over-the-top expansion will be.
"Pimp hands, prostitutes, and pharmacies" is the next LOL
Seal Team Flix is different since we are both equally invested in it. We aren't hijacking people's free time.
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engelstein wrote: I would have him check out our Game Design Checklist - It's hosted on Cardboard Edison, but here's the direct link .
I've found asking these questions of your design can be really valuable for both novice and experienced game designers.
There are also a lot of resources out there, including bgdf.com and cardboardedison.com, plus Ludology of course, which focuses on game design.
Geoff
That's a great list of questions at that linked site. The color blindness question is really good. Not only are some people color blind, but there are a lot of otherwise normal folks who struggle to distinguish between red and orange, or green and turquoise. If color is going to play an important role in your components, try to also use different shapes for the colored objects, to give colorblind players an alternate source of visual information.
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- SuperflyPete
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hotseatgames wrote: Seal Team Flix is different since we are both equally invested in it. We aren't hijacking people's free time.
I don't know about "equally invested", but you did buy the staples LMAO
I think that Geoff and Shellhead nailed it - if the design work is good and the proto is pleasing, then playtesting isn't a chore for the designer or participants because the game is pretty much solid at that point (or relatively solid) and thus it's not testing a game out as much as playing a new, cool game. Having players act stupidly in order to seek flaws from odd gameplay is the one thing that sucks - I've done that and it's tiresome not really making good moves, but rather anti-intuitive ones that actively seek to break the game.
Like moving my medic into a spot to heal you, despite being in LOS of 5 enemies who cut him down like a chainsaw through butter....
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Also I'm on the fence when it comes to making good looking prototypes. I know that you should always make a cheap and dirty prototype and test that for a long time, but then again part of a board game experience is usability and the components. And by making the game easy to use and by making it easy to grasp the story of the game, you also help your testers focus on the game rather than nitpicking about irrelevant stuff.
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- Black Barney
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"Barney will complain if it goes long cuz he hates long game. Barney will go quiet and into silent protest if he's losing. Barney will make a joke about how this game would be great in a zombie theme but I need to remember he's just joking. Barney hates co-op games"
so he is going to have lines like this in his head about all his testers which is important cuz it'll allow him to sift what are the standard comments which are made all the time from the really unique perspective comments, and to read them as so.
His brother is the king of nitpicking about irrelevant stuff. i can't wait for that part. "this prototype should only be played in trailers"
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- Black Barney
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Next time we're just going to boil up some potatoes with that tennis ball machine.
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- Black Barney
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The story of me trying to produce a urine sample is a little funny but not really. I also think the nurse hated me cuz that IV she put in hurt like a son of a gun. And they're not supposed to. She didn't like that I took my shift off cuz I was too lazy to roll up the sleeve of my work shirt
...dammit I'm hijacking my own thread
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The rulebook is going to be really important. Not just the "How to Play" part, but also "What the hell are all these game pieces and what do I do with them?" I've found that when I've playtested games where I couldn't figure out components or get rules questions answered quickly that about 70% of my feedback ended up being issues with the rules, either because I didn't understand parts of them or thought I did and proceeded to make a bunch of comments based on unknowingly playing the game incorrectly. I know that feedback probably isn't particularly enjoyable, but I always feel that I'd be disingenuous pretending that rules and component functionality issues weren't front and center when they surfaced.
Once you think you've got your rules sorted out get something like a Tascam DR-05 recorder, leave it near the table, give the game to a group that has never played it, and then go to the pub or something. Tell them not to worry about rules issues, because you'll have all that discussion recorded to review later. Let them discuss the game afterwards without you around and get that recorded. Then come back and discuss the game with them and ask the targeted questions you really want answered.
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- engineer Al
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mads b. wrote: Also I'm on the fence when it comes to making good looking prototypes. I know that you should always make a cheap and dirty prototype and test that for a long time, but then again part of a board game experience is usability and the components. And by making the game easy to use and by making it easy to grasp the story of the game, you also help your testers focus on the game rather than nitpicking about irrelevant stuff.
I agree with this. I always start with crude hand drawn pieces on cut up index cards, but once things have been written over and crossed out to the point of fine tuning, a nice prototype makes it a lot easier to play over and over and to grab playtesters.
My other piece of advice, which others may disagree with, is to work with a partner. Two people means you support eachother when things are frustrating, and push eachother to keep going where one person might just give up. Also it helps to be able to bang ideas together when trying to solve a problem.
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