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Will Fantasy Flight ever hire a real graphic designer?

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26 Nov 2015 04:36 #215960 by daveroswell

craniac wrote:

sagrilarus wrote: Are we all leaping to the conclusion that the number listed on that web site is correct and complete? Salary data is notoriously bad, where one person misreporting (or not reporting) can swing a number $15,000, especially if there are a low number of employees in the sample size. It's often based on job advertisements.


I think the important thing to keep in mind here, once we are done pretending to care about labor issues, is that the games just look so cheesy.


Is that Mike Brady cheering the knights?
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26 Nov 2015 04:43 #215961 by sornars
I'm pretty sure that those figures that are rewards for tournament winners where they get painted into a card they help create. Doesn't excuse how jarring it is but it does explain why they were made to stand out so clearly.

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26 Nov 2015 08:31 #215966 by Sagrilarus
We used to joke about euros being brown here.
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26 Nov 2015 18:28 #216005 by metalface13
Well this makes me feel better about not getting an interview with them a few years ago when I applied while unemployed. Let's not forget they are based in Minnesota which I imagine has a pretty low cost of living. Also that salary is what I made when I worked as a newspaper design for a small-medium sized paper. Salaries for graphic designers vary wildly. You have the designer working at the sign printing shop for $10/hr and then you have the rockstar designers who design logos, typography or whatever for huge corporations and charge tens of thousands of dollars depending on the rights usage. Of course designers vary in level of talent and skillsets. It's possible to make a lot of money freelancing but it also takes a lot of legwork and client management that you don't have to do when just working as a salaried employee. And even among freelancers some just don't know how to properly price their services.
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26 Nov 2015 21:24 #216011 by stoic

craniac wrote:

sagrilarus wrote: Are we all leaping to the conclusion that the number listed on that web site is correct and complete? Salary data is notoriously bad, where one person misreporting (or not reporting) can swing a number $15,000, especially if there are a low number of employees in the sample size. It's often based on job advertisements.


I think the important thing to keep in mind here, once we are done pretending to care about labor issues, is that the games just look so cheesy.



When it comes to Coats of Arms, size matters.

This is how fights and wars were started in Medieval period:

Sir Antlers, thou art surely named Sir "Spit-Frog" for thou hast a small fiddle and ballocks...


Attachments:
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26 Nov 2015 22:21 - 26 Nov 2015 22:23 #216014 by wadenels

metalface13 wrote: Let's not forget they are based in Minnesota which I imagine has a pretty low cost of living.


It ain't Vancouver, but housing prices have been... difficult.

CityData.com wrote: Estimated median house or condo value in 2013: $197,900 (it was $113,700 in 2000)

Mean prices in 2013: All housing units: $250,864; Detached houses: $256,440; Townhouses or other attached units: $212,487; In 2-unit structures: $176,839; In 3-to-4-unit structures: $147,229; In 5-or-more-unit structures: $259,945; Mobile homes: $22,982
Median gross rent in 2013: $852.


That rent figure counts a lot of places that you and I probably wouldn't feel comfortable living in. Mobile homes are not available anywhere within the metro area proper. The 5+ unit structures are new developments, which is becoming the norm anywhere there's enough free space to build them.

Utilities and groceries and stuff are more than fair, though. Be prepared to spend some money on heat. If you're an apartment dweller then get that heat included.
Last edit: 26 Nov 2015 22:23 by wadenels.
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27 Nov 2015 09:33 #216029 by Shellhead
Compared to major cities in the Northeast or the West Coast, living in the Twin Cities is a bargain. Compared to other cities in the Midwest, the Twin Cities metro area is a bit expensive, except in comparison to Chicago. Aside from the cold winters, the quality of life is very good here. And I would rather endure winter here than many other places, because people are reasonably good winter drivers and the plowing is often done in a very efficient manner. Both downtowns have extensive skyway systems so you get around without going outside.
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27 Nov 2015 09:56 - 27 Nov 2015 10:59 #216030 by OldHippy
I just simply don't believe that FFG has bad graphic design, especially not in comparison with the other packages out there.

Anyone see the cover to Flick em Up, it's horrid. Although the wooden box is pretty cool.

Now FFG has my favorite box cover of all time with the original Chaos in the Old World, this year I picked up both Tigris and Samurai and they look great. Very restrained for FFG and certainly suitable for the subject matter and style of play.

Their fantasy type games have the kind of cover you would expect, they look professional but a little dorky because, well, fantasy boardgames are a little dorky. I'm just thinking through the games from them that I have.. Runewars, Runeage, Tide of Iron, Ingenious, Imperial Assault... they look fine. Great even. I don't see the issue. Are we honestly going to believe that some other games company is doing a better job in the graphic design department? I don't see it. Flying Frog? Z-Man? ... they, if anything, look like they've taken from FFG.

It's a shame the designer gets paid so little but I don't think they're games look any worse than anyone else's.
Last edit: 27 Nov 2015 10:59 by OldHippy.
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27 Nov 2015 13:49 #216040 by metalface13
Agreed, FFG's design is pretty much on par with the other big game companies like Wizards of the Coast and Paizo. Let's not forget there is a distinction between graphic design and illustration. There's some overlap between graphic designers and illustrators but it's not always there. The overall look and feel for the product is the responsibility of the art director and/or creative director.
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27 Nov 2015 19:30 #216052 by Dr. Mabuse

metalface13 wrote: Agreed, FFG's design is pretty much on par with the other big game companies like Wizards of the Coast and Paizo. Let's not forget there is a distinction between graphic design and illustration. There's some overlap between graphic designers and illustrators but it's not always there. The overall look and feel for the product is the responsibility of the art director and/or creative director.

Thanks metal, I had written a 3 paragraph diatribe about graphic design vs art direction, but deiced not to post it. Your response is far more articulate than mine would have been.
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27 Nov 2015 23:06 #216062 by Sagrilarus
I really like their art for the Android setting.
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28 Nov 2015 12:55 #216077 by Cranberries
Ok, first of all, FFG art is perfectly fine, and better than most. My opinions are very subjective, and not universally held. So here is some art from Android:



Now let's look at a frame from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, drawn by Frank Miller and Klaus Janson. I am not a comics guy--I had to look this up.



Here is an image from the game Tokaido:



Now here is the cover for Imperial Assault, which is perfectly fine:



Somebody more articulate than myself will have to explain the difference between these images.

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28 Nov 2015 13:07 #216079 by Chaz
So the first one has a bunch of portraits of people either looking vaguely bemused or very unhappy, plus a female Indiana Jones cosplayer. The second one has a dude kicking Superman square in his smug chin, so it's pretty awesome. The third one has some very cheerful Japanese art, and a catfish that can jump exceptionally high, and should probably try out for the NBA. The final one features some people with blasters shooting a stormtrooper, while Vader watches, indifferent. I think the Stormtrooper in the middle is throwing up into a metal waste basket, but it's hard to tell.

So really, they're all quite different.
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28 Nov 2015 17:30 #216084 by ubarose
Those are mostly examples of illustration. Graphic design is the art of visual communication. Graphic design for games is mostly about layout, text, and iconography; ls text clear, or do you need to squint? Does the important stuff stand out or do you need to hunt for it? Can you glance across the table and assess what your opponents have, or do you have to stop the game, walk around the table and try to read the small print on a bunch of cards they have I front of them? Are boundaries and paths clear on game boards and maps, or are left scratching your head about some markings that might be terrain or might be decoration?

Good graphic design is an important tool that makes games easier and more enjoyable to play. Poor graphic design gives you a headache.
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28 Nov 2015 21:31 - 28 Nov 2015 21:34 #216088 by Dr. Mabuse

ubarose wrote: Those are mostly examples of illustration. Graphic design is the art of visual communication. Graphic design for games is mostly about layout, text, and iconography; ls text clear, or do you need to squint? Does the important stuff stand out or do you need to hunt for it? Can you glance across the table and assess what your opponents have, or do you have to stop the game, walk around the table and try to read the small print on a bunch of cards they have I front of them? Are boundaries and paths clear on game boards and maps, or are left scratching your head about some markings that might be terrain or might be decoration?

Good graphic design is an important tool that makes games easier and more enjoyable to play. Poor graphic design gives you a headache.

THIS!

Here are some game component examples.

Good design:



All pertinent information is placed on the right hand side of the card, which guides the eye naturally from left to right and top to bottom. The character's special abilities text box is given plenty of white space (or room between text, images and/or edges) which makes it easy to read at a glance.

The most important information is in the lower right hand corner (where the eye again will move to naturally) and is emphasied with a black background. The only place a large swath of black is used on the card. Icons and coloured squares (the kind of dice you'll roll) are used as shorthand for tertiary abilities. As a bonus the character's portrait faces to the right of the card with its gun barrel acting as an additional guide toward its ability box. THAT is fucking great design at work.


Bad Design:

Where does the eye go to? What is the most important information? Why are there so many colours? Look at the tiny paragraph of text SQUEEEZED into a tiny area and its surrounding white space being overlapped by images. The blocky cut out image of a boot at the bottom of the card is just bad for number of reasons. First off the white background should have been removed, secondly its being overlapped by the Mexican flag bearing senorita (with the text Chihuahua squished on top of the flag) in the background of both those images is ANOTHER image of mountains. There are SEVEN different images on this card. Not all of them necessary. What information can new players get by looking at this card? Not much. It's a nightmare.

Maybe it's because I follow boardgame discussions more closely than any other pop culture medium but the majority of people who post positively or negatively about "graphic design" in boardgames, normally don't understand what they are talking about. When it's good, you should never notice it's even there.

(Just to be clear, I randomly picked these two cards from their respective boxes)
Last edit: 28 Nov 2015 21:34 by Dr. Mabuse.
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