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Shadowrun - Good Setting, Bad Games

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13 Aug 2015 10:46 - 13 Aug 2015 10:47 #208434 by Green Lantern

Not Sure wrote: It's been more than 20 years since I've played SR, the most I've done with later editions is read through some books (4th, I believe...). The world of RPGs moved on, and I haven't really bothered keeping up, aside from reading a system or two every few years. I don't necessarily miss the type of systems SR had, I just don't play RPGs of any sort anymore. SR was a weird beast for sure, but the writers weren't terribly sloppy about it. They really enjoyed their crazy world and it showed in the fluff.

I had fun with it and a good group of friends, and as far as good RPG times had in the old days, it's second only to WFRP for me.


Utterly agree with this. Shadowrun was my first real brush with RPGs and I still have a fond place for it. I'm just sharing how I moved on after getting exposed to other rule systems and settings, and in no way would I ever discourage anyone from picking it up and running with it. "Running" with it...get it?

All this boils down to what Mr. White originally posted to get this discussion rolling and I wholeheartedly agree with him. I love the Shadowrun setting for it's blend of punk noir, street samurai, and dragon crime bosses, but to date no game has really done it justice in CCG, RPG, or board game format.
Last edit: 13 Aug 2015 10:47 by Green Lantern.

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13 Aug 2015 10:51 #208435 by Green Lantern

VALIS wrote: I am loving this conversation and the polarized opinions (and the venomous fury!). I was always intrigued by the setting but never played.


Venomous Fury! Now THAT would be an excellent handle for your runner, Valis. Congrats,and remember: never trust an elf, conserve ammo, and never deal with a Dragon.
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13 Aug 2015 11:26 #208438 by Columbob

Green Lantern wrote: and remember: never trust an elf, conserve ammo, and never deal with a Dragon.


You could almost apply the same recommendation to the Dark Sun setting. Almost.

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13 Aug 2015 15:00 #208451 by DukeofChutney
Im definitely in the shadow run is lame camp. Never really understood the need to have generic interpretations of elves and dwarves slapped on to things. Cyberpunk2020 on the other hand was great.

I did get the new Shadow Run returns crpg in a bundle and play it for a bit. Its ok, a bit run of the mill.

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13 Aug 2015 16:12 - 19 Jul 2016 10:35 #208464 by Mr. White

Shellhead wrote: Unfortunately, many gamers are so far down the nerd rabbit hole that they know more about Moria than the Maori. So it was probably more practical for Shadowrun to deal with stereotypical fantasy races instead of actual human cultures and sub-cultures.


I do like your 'Moria than Maori' line (clever), but I dunno about the rest. I get the impression a lot of the haters here never read any of the excellent source material. As far as mainstream RPGs went, I'd wager SR went the farthest in terms of race and cultural relationships. I'd guess that using Tolkien races allowed them to get away with more then had the game only used real world ethnic groups. Not just in how the various groups get along, but even on an interpersonal level...how does your Maori elf culturally identify? As a Maori or does he/she want to explore the elven side of their heritage? How do they do that when there are no other elves on the island? How are they treated as an elf now amongst the humans? How about their family's treatment when they, or their parents, goblinized? The negative impact of -isms is more approachable to game.

I'm not saying the game is a textbook on social issues, but the themes that run through Shadowrun are (or at least were - haven't kept up with the RPG) a lot deeper than 'dwarves with guns, lulz!'
Last edit: 19 Jul 2016 10:35 by Mr. White.
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13 Aug 2015 18:02 #208471 by SuperflyPete
You nailed it. It's the same "I hate teh cthoolieu stuff" without having read Lovecraft.

On its face I can see how someone would look at it and say "lame" but when you dig a little deeper, it's a rich and deep setting with a ridiculously well fleshed out fiction.

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13 Aug 2015 21:21 #208481 by Not Sure
Mr. White made my point with half the venom and in half the space, which makes his post 4 times as good.

Really looking back at the games of the era, SR 2nd (and even First, though short-lived) was way ahead of the curve on cultural issues. The alignment of magic with the local traditions of an area (so already generally not Euro-centric but minority-focused) was a big deal, and was well-supported in all the books.

To get back on point about the games based in Shadowrun, I think there's something to what Dysjunct said about mish-mashed themes making it hard to design a good game. I'd quibble with "high fantasy", since I don't recall there being much of any. But, the world is pretty hard to nail down, and to shove it into a first-person shooter you're going to a lose a lot in translation. Those games rarely have a ton of useful story anyway.

It did pretty well as a 90s RPG, just because FASA could crank out tons of supporting material at a rate that only WoTC or Steve Jackson could really compete with, but with a much tighter focus. I really think anything that's not widely focused on the world overall is going to struggle and fail, because that's the heart and soul of Shadowrun. I think that's why the SNES version (though stupid in terms of SR game mechanics) really shines, because you're living in that world. The Sega one was the same way, with more choices and still staying mostly true to the rules (no magic+cyber, mostly).

The RPG system is totally amenable to hacking (gangsters are really demons is a great example). We ran some no-magic games and it worked well. It even made a passable CP/Horror system where you start with no-magic characters and start sneaking in cultists.

I also still have my original Sega SR cartridge and Genesis.

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25 Apr 2017 16:03 #247191 by Mr. White
Has anyone tried Shadowrun: Anarchy yet?
is it the system we've been waiting for?

www.briecs.com/2016/10/shadowrun-anarchy-review.html

Shadowrun: Zero Day is the card game I was thinking of in the D&D Dragonfire thread.
www.gametrademagazine.com/Home/1/1/58/581?articleID=191937

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25 Apr 2017 16:26 - 25 Apr 2017 16:31 #247197 by SuperflyPete
IShadowrun SNES was great, and so was the Shadowrun Returns / HongKong PC games.

Some people LOVE Crossfire but I despise it for a variety of reasons. The dice game they made was OK but broken-ish.

The RPG is not as crunchy as it once was but I agree that they need someone to come in and simplify it. If they mirrored the tactical aspect of the PC game it would be awesome, especially if they drop the ten thousand modifiers.

I think Catalyst could fuck up a free lunch and they did so in stunning fashion. If Gale Force 9 got a hold of it they'd have made it into an epic game.
Last edit: 25 Apr 2017 16:31 by SuperflyPete.

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25 Apr 2017 16:27 #247198 by metalface13

Mr. White wrote: Has anyone tried Shadowrun: Anarchy yet?
is it the system we've been waiting for?

www.briecs.com/2016/10/shadowrun-anarchy-review.html

Shadowrun: Zero Day is the card game I was thinking of in the D&D Dragonfire thread.
www.gametrademagazine.com/Home/1/1/58/581?articleID=191937


Interesting, so kind of a Shadowrun meets Netrunner? It's a shame that Shadowrun skirmish minis game never materialized.

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25 Apr 2017 16:33 - 25 Apr 2017 16:37 #247203 by SuperflyPete
It did, or will:

boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/135383/shadowrun-sprawl-gangers

And it did, already, but it was delivered straight from Destination Fucked
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun_Duels
Last edit: 25 Apr 2017 16:37 by SuperflyPete.

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25 Apr 2017 18:03 #247211 by Vlad
Shadowrun's universe has always been a big WTF to me.
I think William Gibson himself said something along the lines: "I create this complex and interesting world, and then somebody decides that one thing it is missing is... elves."
Having said that, I really-really enjoyed Shadowrun: Dragonfall, elves and all.
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25 Apr 2017 19:12 #247223 by Colorcrayons
The only good thing about shadow run is the street gang named 'The Hallow Weeners'.

That's it.

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25 Apr 2017 19:38 #247225 by SuperflyPete

Vlad wrote: Shadowrun's universe has always been a big WTF to me.
I think William Gibson himself said something along the lines: "I create this complex and interesting world, and then somebody decides that one thing it is missing is... elves."
Having said that, I really-really enjoyed Shadowrun: Dragonfall, elves and all.


That whole series is win.

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25 Apr 2017 20:05 #247229 by Sevej
Never very interested in Shadowrun due to the eclectic mix, but the new PC game is good (but, yes, nothing stellar). Everyone is being so serious that I just swallow the things whole (not unlike the Matrix).

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