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Shadowrun - Good Setting, Bad Games
Not Sure wrote: It's been more than 20 years since I've played SR, the most I've done with later editions is read through some books (4th, I believe...). The world of RPGs moved on, and I haven't really bothered keeping up, aside from reading a system or two every few years. I don't necessarily miss the type of systems SR had, I just don't play RPGs of any sort anymore. SR was a weird beast for sure, but the writers weren't terribly sloppy about it. They really enjoyed their crazy world and it showed in the fluff.
I had fun with it and a good group of friends, and as far as good RPG times had in the old days, it's second only to WFRP for me.
Utterly agree with this. Shadowrun was my first real brush with RPGs and I still have a fond place for it. I'm just sharing how I moved on after getting exposed to other rule systems and settings, and in no way would I ever discourage anyone from picking it up and running with it. "Running" with it...get it?
All this boils down to what Mr. White originally posted to get this discussion rolling and I wholeheartedly agree with him. I love the Shadowrun setting for it's blend of punk noir, street samurai, and dragon crime bosses, but to date no game has really done it justice in CCG, RPG, or board game format.
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VALIS wrote: I am loving this conversation and the polarized opinions (and the venomous fury!). I was always intrigued by the setting but never played.
Venomous Fury! Now THAT would be an excellent handle for your runner, Valis. Congrats,and remember: never trust an elf, conserve ammo, and never deal with a Dragon.
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Green Lantern wrote: and remember: never trust an elf, conserve ammo, and never deal with a Dragon.
You could almost apply the same recommendation to the Dark Sun setting. Almost.
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I did get the new Shadow Run returns crpg in a bundle and play it for a bit. Its ok, a bit run of the mill.
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Shellhead wrote: Unfortunately, many gamers are so far down the nerd rabbit hole that they know more about Moria than the Maori. So it was probably more practical for Shadowrun to deal with stereotypical fantasy races instead of actual human cultures and sub-cultures.
I do like your 'Moria than Maori' line (clever), but I dunno about the rest. I get the impression a lot of the haters here never read any of the excellent source material. As far as mainstream RPGs went, I'd wager SR went the farthest in terms of race and cultural relationships. I'd guess that using Tolkien races allowed them to get away with more then had the game only used real world ethnic groups. Not just in how the various groups get along, but even on an interpersonal level...how does your Maori elf culturally identify? As a Maori or does he/she want to explore the elven side of their heritage? How do they do that when there are no other elves on the island? How are they treated as an elf now amongst the humans? How about their family's treatment when they, or their parents, goblinized? The negative impact of -isms is more approachable to game.
I'm not saying the game is a textbook on social issues, but the themes that run through Shadowrun are (or at least were - haven't kept up with the RPG) a lot deeper than 'dwarves with guns, lulz!'
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- SuperflyPete
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On its face I can see how someone would look at it and say "lame" but when you dig a little deeper, it's a rich and deep setting with a ridiculously well fleshed out fiction.
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Really looking back at the games of the era, SR 2nd (and even First, though short-lived) was way ahead of the curve on cultural issues. The alignment of magic with the local traditions of an area (so already generally not Euro-centric but minority-focused) was a big deal, and was well-supported in all the books.
To get back on point about the games based in Shadowrun, I think there's something to what Dysjunct said about mish-mashed themes making it hard to design a good game. I'd quibble with "high fantasy", since I don't recall there being much of any. But, the world is pretty hard to nail down, and to shove it into a first-person shooter you're going to a lose a lot in translation. Those games rarely have a ton of useful story anyway.
It did pretty well as a 90s RPG, just because FASA could crank out tons of supporting material at a rate that only WoTC or Steve Jackson could really compete with, but with a much tighter focus. I really think anything that's not widely focused on the world overall is going to struggle and fail, because that's the heart and soul of Shadowrun. I think that's why the SNES version (though stupid in terms of SR game mechanics) really shines, because you're living in that world. The Sega one was the same way, with more choices and still staying mostly true to the rules (no magic+cyber, mostly).
The RPG system is totally amenable to hacking (gangsters are really demons is a great example). We ran some no-magic games and it worked well. It even made a passable CP/Horror system where you start with no-magic characters and start sneaking in cultists.
I also still have my original Sega SR cartridge and Genesis.
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is it the system we've been waiting for?
www.briecs.com/2016/10/shadowrun-anarchy-review.html
Shadowrun: Zero Day is the card game I was thinking of in the D&D Dragonfire thread.
www.gametrademagazine.com/Home/1/1/58/581?articleID=191937
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- SuperflyPete
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Some people LOVE Crossfire but I despise it for a variety of reasons. The dice game they made was OK but broken-ish.
The RPG is not as crunchy as it once was but I agree that they need someone to come in and simplify it. If they mirrored the tactical aspect of the PC game it would be awesome, especially if they drop the ten thousand modifiers.
I think Catalyst could fuck up a free lunch and they did so in stunning fashion. If Gale Force 9 got a hold of it they'd have made it into an epic game.
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- metalface13
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Mr. White wrote: Has anyone tried Shadowrun: Anarchy yet?
is it the system we've been waiting for?
www.briecs.com/2016/10/shadowrun-anarchy-review.html
Shadowrun: Zero Day is the card game I was thinking of in the D&D Dragonfire thread.
www.gametrademagazine.com/Home/1/1/58/581?articleID=191937
Interesting, so kind of a Shadowrun meets Netrunner? It's a shame that Shadowrun skirmish minis game never materialized.
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- SuperflyPete
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boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/135383/shadowrun-sprawl-gangers
And it did, already, but it was delivered straight from Destination Fucked
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun_Duels
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I think William Gibson himself said something along the lines: "I create this complex and interesting world, and then somebody decides that one thing it is missing is... elves."
Having said that, I really-really enjoyed Shadowrun: Dragonfall, elves and all.
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- Colorcrayons
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That's it.
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- SuperflyPete
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Vlad wrote: Shadowrun's universe has always been a big WTF to me.
I think William Gibson himself said something along the lines: "I create this complex and interesting world, and then somebody decides that one thing it is missing is... elves."
Having said that, I really-really enjoyed Shadowrun: Dragonfall, elves and all.
That whole series is win.
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