Victory Point Games

Anyone know anything about this publisher? Looks like they make a bunch of homebrew, small, low counter density, not too complicated, somewhat card based wargames on a variety of different topics. Sounds right up my alley.

I am seriously eying the solitaire games (Israeli Independence and Russian Civil War) and the Ancients, Napolean-era, and Naval games. As typical with lesser-known games, there's one or two champions on BGG but info is spotty.

victorypointgames.com/home.php

Never heard of them. Some of the games look neat though.

Ha! I thought this thread was going to be for bitching about games that use victory points.

I'm a retard when it comes to wargames, especially when there are a lot of counters, so I bought some of the *-20 games, and have tried Borodino-20 so far. It seems highly abstracted, but it really did seem to come down to how effectively you used certain pieces (cavalry to plug gaps, protecting artillery, etc.). The most interesting part of the system is that you are trying to drive each other's morale down to 0, but you have to pay morale to take certain actions (e.g., use your elite units). The event cards didn't add much to the game, but it was an interesting puzzle.

Check out episode 36 of the Point2Point podcast for a lengthy interview with the guy who runs Victory Point Games, Alan Emrich. This will give you everything you need to know about the company.

Episode 38 has a review of Waterloo 20.

I played my first VPG game this weekend. We played two games of Waterloo 20 and I found it to be quite enjoyable. Each side can only field 9-10 units at a time, so it really feels small and a bit brittle. But the fact that most of the time your units that leave the board (due to being broken) will return later as replacements helps to restore the balance. The game is a nice hex-and-counter filler wargame and is playable in less than 90 minutes (the rules say 50 minutes).

My buddy and I also have Caesar XL, The Drive on Metz, and the one about the American D-Day landings (I forget the title). All appear to have the same level of complexity and playing time. We plan on trying out The Drive on Metz via Vassal soon.

grimnir wrote:

... the guy who runs Victory Point Games, Alan Emrich.

Wow, there's a name from my gaming past. Alan used to be heavily involved in the Cosmic Encounter community, mostly in the pre-internet era. Currently, the scoring system at CE Online is named after him (points are called "m-rics").

I didn't know he was still so active; I'll have to check this stuff out.

Mad Dog wrote:

Ha! I thought this thread was going to be for bitching about games that use victory points.

Me too!

sydo wrote:

Mad Dog wrote:

Ha! I thought this thread was going to be for bitching about games that use victory points.

Me too!

Yeah...like Android, Starcraft, Nexus Ops, WoW:tAg, TI3...VP games suck, right fellas!?!

Octavian wrote:

sydo wrote:

Mad Dog wrote:

Ha! I thought this thread was going to be for bitching about games that use victory points.

Me too!

Yeah...like Android, Starcraft, Nexus Ops, WoW:tAg, TI3...VP games suck, right fellas!?!

I'm with you. I was waiting for someone to start complaining about this, but I think even the above comment is in jest. VP's add another game to some great games. I wish RISK had VP's when I was a kid--we pissed away a lot of hours fighting out those last stupid battles sometimes.

Octavian wrote:

Yeah...like Android, Starcraft, Nexus Ops, WoW:tAg, TI3...VP games suck, right fellas!?!

I'm not familiar with these specific titles, but, when it comes to VPs as a victory condition, there's a world of difference between a game like Settlers and a game like Carcassone.

I'm not familiar with these specific titles, but, when it comes to VPs as a victory condition, there's a world of difference between a game like Settlers and a game like Carcassone.

At the risk of highjacking this thread and turning it in the direction many of us thought it was going in the first place...care to elaborate?

I think Settlers and Carcassone both work fine.

On the other hand, I don't like how VPs work in TI3 and some other games.

I don't think his point was that they don't work, but that the implementation of VPs in them is a world apart. On one hand you have a game where there is a set point value and the first person to achieve it wins. On the other you have a game where there is a game timer and the winner is whoever has the most points at the end.

Perhaps one is more palatable than the other? The "whoever has the most points at the end wins" style is a lot less common in AT games, at least - Starcraft uses both methods...Android is the only one that I can think of off the top of my head that fits the model, and Android has received a fairly mixed reception.

-MMM

Whether or not both games work is not what I was getting at.

In Carc, you are faced with decisions like "I can do this and this for 4 VPs, or this and this for 5 VPs (but give Fred over there 2 points), or this and this...". Do a bunch of things, get a bunch of points. An exercise in efficiency. After PoF and PR, I was getting wary of such games; St. Pete and Caylus cemented my feelings. Carc has a spatial element that makes it bearable.

In Settlers, you have to think along the lines of "how the %&$@ am I going to get my 10th point?!". Each and every point becomes a strategic objective. A set limit isn't necessary; among my favorite games are Knizia's set collection trilogy: E&T, Samurai, Ingenious.

Other flavors of VP accumulation among my favorites are (1) map grab (Domaine; Tempus), and (2) counting ongoing success (Evo, Ursuppe).

Ok, I see how they're different, I thought you were saying you preferred one method over the other and was curious why. Risk 2210 and History of the World are both Ameritrash(ish) games that have the "whoever has the most points at the end wins" rule.

Not to derail the derailment, but I've gone ahead and ordered Soviet Dawn, the solitaire Russian Revolution game, and Waterloo 20, which looks very solitaire suitable. I'll post impressions eventually.

Thanks to those who actually responded to the topic, the Point2Point stuff was interesting. Although they do go on a bit.