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Batman Kickstarter (w/discussion of FOMO sales method)
Loosely tangential:
While I don't know the specifics for Mantic games, I know their IP license for The Walking Dead wasn't cheap and it effects their bottom line. For comparison, I know their license for Mars Attacks was much much lower. Even still, it wasn't renewed. I don't know the expensive for their Hellboy license.
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Gary Sax wrote: 7th continent also had the big benefit to me of being a 2nd kickstarter on a more proven product with really good buzz from people whose tastes align with mine (e.g. Charlie).
If it makes you feel any better, I'm philosophically conflicted on 7th Continent at the moment. I think I'm going to write a full on article at some point on it in the near future so I can work this out. It's simultaneously brilliant and aggravating. I think my first 20ish hours with the game were great, but I'm not sure overall how to assess it fairly.
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Last night I found out Neil Marshall is directing the new Hellboy movie. I don't have an interest in Hellboy, but I do have an interest in Neil Marshall films. I've missed him since 2010's Centurion (don't watch too much TV, so didn't follow him to the small screen).
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drewcula wrote: None of us are privy to Monolith's finances. Which would be relevant to this discussion. Without knowing the cost of the Batman IP license, there's just a lot of speculation and assumption.
Okay. If the Batman IP is so prohibitively expensive that Monolith has to callously exploit FOMO in order to recoup the cost of obtaining it, then that's actually far, far fucking worse than what we're already complaining about.
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Of course, it is certainly easier to sell them all at once and not have to worry about warehousing stock, and shipping individual orders
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ubarose wrote: I don't understand why this game has everyone's panties in a wad. It's not like you are never going to get a chance to play it. 10,000 gamers are going to have a copy of it and are going to be looking for people to play it with to justify the purchase. You will probably cross paths with one of them eventually. And if you really like it and need to own it, just wait a few years. You'll be able to pick it up used for like half the price when folks start dumping it to bankroll the next Blockbuster game - which will probably be just yet another reskin of the same game. Seriously, Conan is like $75 now. Same thing will happen to the Batman game.
Conan base game is $75 now primarily because it doesn't have the stretch goals and extra content. With stretch goals its several hundred. Like Blood Rage and Zombicide, I'm not sure it will be dropping anytime in the foreseable future.
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I remember actually feeling relieved when Monolith came through with Conan because without any kind of critical backlash or potential impact on Monolith's bottom line, there was next to no incentive for them to fully deliver on this front if they had decided to just take the money and move on. I mean, seriously. Support for that giant box of extra KS material was dicey for a bit longer than felt comfortable. I'm glad they have a longer term, grown-up business plan for these products, but it was eye-opening for me. I'm fine with this happening when someone releases a $70 core through normal channels, plans for expansions, then drops support. It's a different ballgame when an entire product line can hit a dead end without putting much of a dent in anything but the funds of those who initially supported it. I'm not saying that the Conan campaign necessarily steered toward that path but I did catch a glimpse of it while waiting for the scenarios to come in.
It's telling that SUSD, despite the good intentions behind their caveat emptor moment, actually failed to see that Monolith did in fact support Conan. Why? Because it happened on Monolith's clubhouse forum and communications/campaigns aimed at original backers. There's a growing transparency & echo chamber problem here, I think. The more competent and less sheisty producers will create good material despite this, but others may prove less competent or trustworthy & take advantage (or simply fail). As I've discovered with something like Massive Darkness, fans are also surprisingly willing to band-aid over development problems, further masking this growing blind spot of accountability.
"Big bang" releases have gradually become less common in the software development world because they're risky. It's surprising to see this methodology gain traction in this sphere but understandable when most of the risk is absorbed by the funders and insulated by exclusivity.
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Since then, I haven't kickstarted anything, but I have bought several Kickstarted products that became available after the Kickstarter, either through retail or direct from the publisher. Camp Grizzly, Lords of Gossamer and Shadow (a role-playing game), Saltlands, and the Veronica Mars movie. I was happy with all of those products, and also happy to not risk any of my own money during the Kickstarter.
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Being pretty much the only Ameritrash game buyer in my group, I've still not played many KS games, notably Blood Rage. And I probably never will, as I'm unwilling to shell out $500+ for the exclusives and would be too aggravated about the gated content that I'd probably never even use. But that's on me, really, as I hypocritically purchased Rising Sun that followed the same predatory model. I'm an adult making my own decisions on how I spend my spare cash and am aware of how I'm being manipulated. Doesn't mean I don't often rebuke myself for my Kickstarter therapy...ubarose wrote: I don't understand why this game has everyone's panties in a wad. It's not like you are never going to get a chance to play it. 10,000 gamers are going to have a copy of it and are going to be looking for people to play it with to justify the purchase. You will probably cross paths with one of them eventually. And if you really like it and need to own it, just wait a few years. You'll be able to pick it up used for like half the price when folks start dumping it to bankroll the next Blockbuster game - which will probably be just yet another reskin of the same game. Seriously, Conan is like $75 now. Same thing will happen to the Batman game.
What it comes down to is that while the vast majority of KS games can be bought at a discount later, the good ones will usually cost you a lot more if there was exclusive content after people determine it's actually good. As our resident Dad Sag would be quick to remind us, though, so long as you're willing to pay for the exorbitant prices for the great KS games after the fact, you'd still end up saving money by not Kickstarting all the "hot" games and doing this. I think this is generally true, unless you are very quick to flip games that end up being meh...you'll almost always get your purchase price back unless the game is a real dog.
I never knew Andrew Tullsen lost money on The Vesuvius Incident, I backed that too. That sucks, as it was a really great production for what it was.
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- hotseatgames
- Away
- D12
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/hides under table
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Really, lots of reason not to get this. I mean, you got spare budget? Want the minis? Die hard batman fans? Just get it. The game might not be perfect, but again, it's about playing Batman with your friends.
For me, it's too expensive , and it's a brawl game, which isn't covering enough of Batman. Also, very few information on how the game will incorporate the villains in a Batman-y way. I don't think scenarios will cut it for me without some inbetween game plotting and revenge.
And again, I dislike IP-based minis game. Less feeling of owning the minis.
From board gaming perspective, I'm kind of a mimimalist guy who appreciate games that can bring a lot with the least amount of stuff.
Couldn't care less about it being KS or even KS exclusive.
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hotseatgames wrote: So.... who's pumped for the Zombicide in Space kickstarter?
/hides under table
A higher priced inferior Space Hulk. Bet it raises 3 million.
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