Let's talk DUEL OF AGES II

Yeah, the cards aren't really the same rebus you get from something like Race for the Galaxy. (That's my standard for impenetrable symbols since I've not played Earth Reborn.) The checks all tell you which icon to compare, so there's never this confusion about which number you should be looking at. Although there is sometimes a question remembering what each symbol represents, that doesn't come up much.

In the Codex it says that the design of the cards is such that they are meant to be stacked up and compared quickly, which is why all of the stats run that way. The graphic design actually works really well that way.

Exactly. Shell, it breaks down to just four stat blocks. Melee, Ranged, Defense, Traits (str, IQ, honor, respect). That's all there is to it. HP and MV at the top. Other icons merely represent what time period you come from and your gender (M/F/robot/demon/etc). The bottom numbers tell you what your starting gear is.

We play 8 characters each, FWIW.

One of the things I really like about the game is how your weapons and other gear are a secret until you whip it out. Does the enemy have a measly throwing knife or an anti tank missile? Poodle or tiger? Is he unarmored or does he have chainmail or a combat suit?

How does this play with 8? Or even just more than 4 if you haven't gone to the full complement? I'm planning on running a game of this at a 24-hour board game charity event I take part in every year, and was thinking of running a game of this, which would be my first time. I would rather not cap it at 4 if I don't have to. (You enter the event as teams, and this would enable my team of 3 to invite another team I know of 5 to join in rather than looking for a single to get us to 4.)

You absolutely could play with 8. The number of players doesn't really add time, it's the number of characters that does that. If you do a triad mission, the players will have fewer characters to manage, which can help learning.

That said, my experience teaching any big group in any game is that it's kind of like herding cats. It can be challenging to manage teams that are that big and coordinate tactics, so people sometimes just do their own thing during the turn, and don't engage much during downtime. So people might gripe about the pacing with lots of people, and it can be a problem.

But the game is designed to handle groups like that. So you should be fine.

Thanks for the advice! These particular people should be good for coordinating strategy and actions between turns so I'm expecting downtime to be no big deal.

We played a four-player Triad game last night, the 3-hour length. I was on the Black team.

White team started really strong. They somehow managed to amaze all of their adventures, and then they got into the Black base and busted a couple of gates right off. That meant Black team was behind the 8-ball from the very beginning. White also had a couple of really good melee fighters who were able to take control of the situation on the ground almost right away. Combined with some bad luck on our half, and things looked grim early on.

But Black fought back and had a couple of really hot turns. In one we managed to imprison one of their players when Venya 8 took them down with a shotgun. Clara Barton was able to amaze on a Lith Challenge Card that actually gave us an extra character on our team. Combine that with one of my characters getting healed, a few good turns at labyrinths, and a lovely present of kittens to Lith, and suddenly Black team was sitting in the driver's seat.

White came roaring back eventually. A couple of characters (Coach Carter and Brad the Slacker) made an attempt to get into the White base and free our one imprisoned character. We were waylaid by a couple of their characters but survived the melee attacks, with some support from Venya 8. So Brad the Slacker tries to sneak into the main gate, succeeds, and then FOPPs on the check to destroy the location. He is banished across the board to a totally worthless spot. Coach Carter FOPPs on his attempt to break into the High gate (I think that's what it's called, it's the one that uses respect for the check), and is imprisoned when he is rocked by the next melee attack. A couple of other characters are attacked and imprisoned, and all of the sudden Black team has 4 characters imprisoned, and 5 out there adventuring.

Thankfully the game was near over and White team was not able to really gain the upper hand anywhere else. They were able to go to the Modern labyrinth and remove one of the Black markers, making that labyrinth a draw. William Wallace had the opportunity to go and replace that marker, but Ygunna Getcha (spy lady!) planted right at the entrance to the labyrinth, making sure that no Black team members could get in and adventure. White ended up getting the Combat, Base, and Future labyrinth achievement. Black got the Lith achievement, along with the Ancient and Colonial labyrinths. Modern was tied and went unawarded, so we ended with a 3-3 draw. We could have kept on going but we agreed to leave it where it was, since a draw is perfectly possible in Duel of Ages II. It felt appropriate anyway, because we had seesawed back and forth the whole game.

Black's MVPs:
- Baba Yaga ended up getting the most items, and was able to amaze on not one, but two labyrinth adventures involving sports. She also had a clutch moment when she threw the Showstopper grenade, which blows up a TON of people. It managed to kill Victoria the daredevil from White team, preventing the Valor auto-win.
- Coach Carter used his +1 Adventure Aura effect on at least three Labyrinth adventures, and won a couple himself before he was imprisoned. In hindsight I wish I had used him more extensively.

White MVPs:
- Nightdancer is a very strong melee character and was responsible for a couple of imprisonments all on her own.
- Grok the big dumb oaf was able to dominate one of the platters and prevent my characters from really effectively moving around in the area. He was pretty high impact.

I took some intentional steps in teaching this game. First of all, I selected teams and platters beforehand, and let the players pick which teams they wanted, while I filled in the last spot. I avoided characters who were too text heavy, had henchmen, or were generally completely game-altering. Secondly, I removed some of the weirder cards like badges and Lith achievements, just to reduce the more confusing card draws. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I think I've finally learned how to frame the experience better for new players. The tactical side of the game is really the meat of it, and last night I made a concerted effort to emphasize that part. That meant players weren't expecting a nonstop barrage of wacky hijinks and goofy weapon combos. Rather they intuitively understood to try to coordinate efforts and work toward the achievement goals. These were the types of players who were already well-suited to handle a game like this, so that helped. A couple of character powers went underused or unused entirely, but that happens when you're learning the game.

After a good year or so wondering if I was crazy for enjoying this game so much back in 2013-2014, the last couple months have given me a new appreciation for it. Definitely in my Top 5 now.

And the best part is next time you can actually draft players, put all the crazy weird shit out, etc. if you play with them again.

Gary Sax wrote: And the best part is next time you can actually draft players, put all the crazy weird shit out, etc. if you play with them again.

We finished up and they all said that they wanted to play more. A couple of them commented that while they were daunted by a 3-hour game, they would gladly have gone in for a multi-hour session of Duel of Ages.

One thing I wish more players understood is that the game really needs at least three hours for everything to unspool. If we had stopped after two hours we would have missed a lot of the most dramatic moments and wild swings. The stakes get higher as the game goes on.

Lot of games of that length are just not on the table for people and it's a real bummer if you longer games (like me). But real life, so I get it.

The tactical side of the game is really the meat of it, and last night I made a concerted effort to emphasize that part. That meant players weren't expecting a nonstop barrage of wacky hijinks and goofy weapon combos. Rather they intuitively understood to try to coordinate efforts and work toward the achievement goals. These were the types of players who were already well-suited to handle a game like this, so that helped. A couple of character powers went underused or unused entirely, but that happens when you're learning the game.

I find these revisits to Duel of Ages really interesting.

So did you mean "strategic" above?

Would I be correct in saying that the characters used imply a fair bit of US cultural knowledge (no idea who Annie Oakley is or Coach Carter)?

This is actually the main reason I've avoided this game. I would just lose immersion if I had no 'feel' for the characters involved.

ThirstyMan wrote: Would I be correct in saying that the characters used imply a fair bit of US cultural knowledge (no idea who Annie Oakley is or Coach Carter)?

This is actually the main reason I've avoided this game. I would just lose immersion if I had no 'feel' for the characters involved.

A couple of them. The vast majority of them are made-up figures, though many are ersatz versions of real fictional characters. The Coach is just a kind of amalgam of the coach stereotype in sports. That could be an American stereotype, I'm not sure. Someone other than me would have to comment on whether the overall feel of the characters is that heavily slanted.

I actually think the bigger hurdle (not necessarily for you) is a working knowledge of historical and literary figures. That's really where the real references are, and while there are a couple of more American figures like Clara Barton, Elliot Ness, and Annie Oakley, I would say more of them are made up entirely, more broadly historical (Ghengis Kahn for example) or mythological (like Baba Yaga).

cranberries wrote: So did you mean "strategic" above?

Maybe? I dunno, I find the distinction between strategy and tactics pretty fuzzy. What I mean more is that as the situation on the ground changes you need to make a lot of shifts in your plans to deal with the new situation. The way dismissals work make it hard to coordinate as effectively as you want to, so it has to kind of be ad hoc. The biggest strategic part is putting together your team and building the board, I'd say.

A lot of the characters are very American in their origin, but knowing who they are isn't required, and even if it is (which it isn't), the back of the card has a long biography.

san il defanso wrote: I find the distinction between strategy and tactics pretty fuzzy. What I mean more is that as the situation on the ground changes you need to make a lot of shifts in your plans to deal with the new situation. The way dismissals work make it hard to coordinate as effectively as you want to, so it has to kind of be ad hoc. The biggest strategic part is putting together your team and building the board, I'd say.

That would be more on the tactical end of the spectrum. (My radio show / podcast just did an episode on strategy vs tactics a few weeks ago.)